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Like, a new ToS and stuff, mkay?
Old 12-15-2010, 04:00 PM   #1
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http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php

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2.1 Age Requirements for Second Life.

By accepting this Agreement in connection with an Account, you represent that you are at least 13 years of age and you have the legal authority to enter into this Agreement. If you are at least 13 years of age and less than 18 years of age, you represent that (i) your parent or legal guardian has consented to your having an Account in Second Life, participating in the Service, and providing your personal information in connection with the Service; and (ii) your parent or legal guardian has read and accepted this Agreement on your behalf. If you are under 13 years of age, then please do not use Second Life. There are lots of other great virtual world services for you. Talk to your parents about which services are appropriate for you.
2.2 Age Requirements for Teen Second Life.

(i) Users 13 to 15. If you are at least 13 years of age but less than 16 years of age, you may only use the Service if you are affiliated with a Sponsoring Organization, and your Account in Second Life is referred to as an “Affiliated Account.” A “Sponsoring Organization” means a User Organization (as defined in Section 2.4 below) that (i) maintains on the Service a “Teen Estate,” which is Virtual Land and Content that is appropriate for users between 13 and 16 and complies with the General Maturity Rating; (ii) has been approved by Linden Lab, in our sole discretion, to register Affiliated Accounts using our "Registration API" tool; (iii) limits the access of all Affiliated Accounts of users between 13 and 16 to the Sponsoring Organization’s Teen Estate; and (iv) requires all visitors to the Teen Estate to comply with the General Maturity Rating and any other rules that the Sponsoring Organization may impose as long as they are consistent with this Agreement. By accepting this Agreement in connection with an Affiliated Account, you represent that in addition to the representations of section 2.1, you are at least 13 years of age and less than 16 years of age, you agree that you will at all times comply with your Sponsoring Organization’s rules for the Teen Estate, and you acknowledge that you are only permitted to access your Sponsoring Organization’s Teen Estate and no other areas of the Service.

(ii) Users 16 and 17. If you are at least 16 years of age but less than 18 years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if it is greater), then you may only access areas of the Service rated General in accordance with our Maturity Ratings. If you have used the Service under an Affiliated Account, you may continue to access your Sponsoring Organization’s Teen Estate, provided that the Sponsoring Organization permits you to continue such access upon reaching the age of 16.

For users 13 through 17 years of age, we have created Teen Safety Guidelines that we suggest you review with your parents.

(iii) Users 18 and Over. If you are at least 18 years of age (or the legal age of majority in your jurisdiction, if it is greater), then you may access areas of the service that are rated General, as well as Moderate and Adult, as provided in our Maturity Ratings and Section 2.3 below.

Your Accounts may be supsended or terminated immediately without warning or any refund or other compensation if we believe that you are under 13 years of age, if we believe you are under 18 years of age and you represent yourself as 18 or older, or if we believe you are over 18 and represent yourself as under 18.


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Old 12-15-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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Well, that settles that. Problem solved! Linden Lab will just tell a bunch of teenagers where they can and can't go, and I'm sure the kids will comply. after all, if we can trust them when they say they have Mom's and Dad's permission, why can't we trust them to follow the guidelines and stay in the boring areas and out of the interesting ones?

I'm sure glad LL is looking out for the welfare of the kids. This will definitely keep them out of the Furry Gorean Anal Sex Slave BDSM Emporium (check out the happy hour specials in our tequila bar!!!!)
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:12 PM   #3
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LL just put the last nail in SL's coffin.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:32 PM   #4
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Nah, SL has to go this direction to be viable. Technically, someday, it should be open to all ages. At least, as far as I've seen where SL could be heading (internet companion?).

Of course, there should probably be better controls or something for the younger crowd, but still... I always figured SL would end up all-ages someday. At least, the same way that the internet is... no wait, more stringent than the internet is (which SL is already more controlled than the internet at large).
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:39 PM   #5
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I guess when it comes down to it, this is no less stringent than the rest of the internet, like Kick said. It's not like teenagers can't go to porn sites on the internet and just lie about their age. In SL you can see avatars doing just about anything. In the rest of the internet, you can see real people doing the same things.

It's really up to parents to monitor their children's internet usage. It's not fair to put the burden on the sites who have no real way of actually seeing who is using their sites and trying to verify their age.

I don't know that SL really has to allow teen access, though. I definitely see a huge down side to it. The upside may be more users, and more business accounts for those who want to set up teen sites. I'm not sure that makes up for losses of freedom for adults. SL is about a lot more than sex-oriented activites. At least as far as I'm concerned, there is a lot more to it.

I guess I just haven't reached a point in thinking this through where I have a really clear position and a solid understanding of where this is all going.
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:44 PM   #6
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I think we should move the SC clubhouse to PG land to recruit...
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:46 PM   #7
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I think we should move the SC clubhouse to PG land to recruit...
Huh?
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Old 12-15-2010, 04:53 PM   #8
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Huh?
oh nothin'...
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:18 PM   #9
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Actually, it has struck me as odd that SC is on Mature land instead of Adult, but I figure it was probably there before Adult land was released.

And yeah, Trout... it's definitely a twisty situation. It would be MUCH better if land had been set up so that PG was all together and M was all together, as separate continents, right from the beginning. Which is where the problem is... that would be the best solution, but it would be so disruptive to SL as a whole it's not something LL would even want to think about. The Zindra move was hard enough, but that was a small percentage compared to divvying up PG/M (or G/M).
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:21 PM   #10
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The whole adult land fiasco thing was a knee jerk reaction to the zOMG Pedo Bears are roaming. The Duchy Land (Clearwing) has been around for years now so, yeah pretty much.
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Old 12-15-2010, 05:51 PM   #11
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Wow. Just wow.
All of that money that went into the teen grid and strict controls just got pissed away.
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:37 PM   #12
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As Trout said, SL is in no different position than the rest of the internet when it comes to adult content. Outside gated communities like ours here, the internet is disproportionately made of teenagers. In SL as on the Web, it's up to individual sites to determine how far they need to go to restrict their content. LL has covered their ass and provided the tools for us to cover ours.

Granted, it would be nice if the age-verification system were less arduous. I actually tried to give them the DNA samples and dental records they wanted, and the system still could not confirm I'm me :P
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Old 12-15-2010, 06:43 PM   #13
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Another thing pretty neato I think is with the new linden dollar license, looks like Wasted was right. I'm thinking it opens gambling back up. Use at yer own risk kind of wording. Interesting times indeed.
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Old 12-15-2010, 07:24 PM   #14
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I think we should move the SC clubhouse to PG land to recruit...


Now my face hurts! DX

....

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Old 12-15-2010, 07:30 PM   #15
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Isn't a surprise - we knew it was going to happen.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:21 PM   #16
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You can't even walk on Zindra, I can't imagine what it would be like for someone to try and do the naughty there.
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:30 PM   #17
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Warning: the following is the view of a severely embittered and cynical hag (no, not Io, as described by Monna, the "other" hag ). Elitism rears its ugly head too ....

I think it all depends on how you see SL.

I don't believe that SL is "the future of the web", so arguments that start from a premise that "the internet has property X, therefore SL should have property X" aren't particularly convincing to me.

If I had to list the strengths of SL, very few of them would center around the supporting technology, most of them would be at the society/cultural level. I think that SL, as we know it, has a really strong appeal to a really small niche market. I, selfishly, like that, because that niche market has, in my experience, a much higher percentage of interesting (and tolerant) people in it than the mainstream population.

TL;DR version:
SL's reputation as needing a Comp Sci degree to use, and an interest in Dolcett to enjoy, is actually a *good* thing.

Bitter-and-Twisted Cale
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:39 PM   #18
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If that's what I'd heard about SL before I found it, I probably wouldn't be here. Whether that's a good or bad thing...
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Old 12-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #19
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If that's what I'd heard about SL before I found it, I probably wouldn't be here. Whether that's a good or bad thing...
Bitter-and-Twisted-Cale tends to have her stridency-level perma-set at "11" Vudu. You need to apply a strong filter, to dial that 11 back to a more reasonable three or so, for her thoughts to make any sense.
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Old 12-15-2010, 10:05 PM   #20
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I had no idea what dolcett was until I discovered sl. My vocabulary has certainly expanded in the past few years. I have even learned to swear which has come in extremely handy in my rl recently.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:21 PM   #21
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My vocabulary has certainly expanded in the past few years.
I never knew what Vitriol meant before I started reading SL related forums.

I am not eager to hang out with 13 years olds on SL.
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Old 12-16-2010, 01:42 AM   #22
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I had no idea what dolcett was until I discovered sl.
Me too!

Now, sure, "that which is seen can never again be unseen". And, yes, its true, I can only sleep via medication now, lest the unspeakable nightmares return to plague my nights. But hey, that's a small price to pay for knowledge, amirite??????

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Old 12-16-2010, 08:12 AM   #23
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I have dreaded this for a few years.
not cool

I guess from now on I doubt I will ever be in PG land.
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:57 AM   #24
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My NCI classroom is on Moderate land!
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:53 AM   #25
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Actually, it has struck me as odd that SC is on Mature land instead of Adult, but I figure it was probably there before Adult land was released.
Long before!
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:55 AM   #26
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LL just put the last nail in SL's coffin.
Actually Luc, this is nothing new at all. Linden Lab has simply done what every mixed content service provider has done in the past.

It's the self deluded "parents" (the ones that believe we need to raise and watch their kids for them) who will "put the final nail in SL's coffin".

After all, it's not the parent's fault that their little Johnny or Jane was parading around some porn site or around the Adult areas of Second Life - now is it?
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Old 12-16-2010, 10:32 AM   #27
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Actually, it has struck me as odd that SC is on Mature land instead of Adult, but I figure it was probably there before Adult land was released.

And yeah, Trout... it's definitely a twisty situation. It would be MUCH better if land had been set up so that PG was all together and M was all together, as separate continents, right from the beginning. Which is where the problem is... that would be the best solution, but it would be so disruptive to SL as a whole it's not something LL would even want to think about. The Zindra move was hard enough, but that was a small percentage compared to divvying up PG/M (or G/M).
M land now stands for Moderate, it used to stand for Mature... of course, who here is actually Mature?
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Old 12-16-2010, 12:52 PM   #28
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I for one welcome our pimply overlords.
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Old 12-16-2010, 02:42 PM   #29
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Cale, I know I was the one who brought it up so I'm responding to your comments about SL not being "like the internet".

Basically, I see virtual worlds (SL at the forefront currently) as an extension of the Internet. I don't think they'll replace the internet, but I do think they'll become just as important/widely used... or at least close to it.

The internet at large and SL are definitely comparable. You can find just about anything using either one, kids can find their way to adult content regardless of controls, anyone can set up their own "site" and put what they want on it, and so on. The biggest difference, besides the 3D world, may be that SL has better controls than the internet does.

The point is, no... SL isn't the internet. But it is very akin to it.
One of the ways we explain SL to other people is to say, "Imagine the internet as a 3D world, where websites are plots of land. And you can fly."

It should be noted that when I say virtual worlds will be adopted in much the same way as the internet, I'm not talking about the next couple years. I mean long-term. Give it 10 years and see where we are... thinking of the difference of 10 years ago to today.

-

Sally, good point and good point. Seems "Moderate" is much more fitting than "Mature".
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Old 12-16-2010, 08:46 PM   #30
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Cale, I know I was the one who brought it up so I'm responding to your comments about SL not being "like the internet".

Basically, I see virtual worlds (SL at the forefront currently) as an extension of the Internet. I don't think they'll replace the internet, but I do think they'll become just as important/widely used... or at least close to it.

The internet at large and SL are definitely comparable. You can find just about anything using either one, kids can find their way to adult content regardless of controls, anyone can set up their own "site" and put what they want on it, and so on. The biggest difference, besides the 3D world, may be that SL has better controls than the internet does.

The point is, no... SL isn't the internet. But it is very akin to it.
One of the ways we explain SL to other people is to say, "Imagine the internet as a 3D world, where websites are plots of land. And you can fly."

It should be noted that when I say virtual worlds will be adopted in much the same way as the internet, I'm not talking about the next couple years. I mean long-term. Give it 10 years and see where we are... thinking of the difference of 10 years ago to today.
I think I'm personally inclined to Luddism (whic is kinda ironic given my RL job, but there it is ), and that probably shades my views. That said, I also think there's an "oh, shiny!" brigade out there too (which I don't include you in) who tend too much the otherway.

It may still be "early" days, but I still don't see the drivers that will push for really large scale adoption of virtual worlds, on the scale that makes them comparable to the internet as a whole. LL don't seem to have been able to find these drivers either (which may, or may not, be a point in favour of my argument ).

I agree with a number of your points about how SL and the general internet are comparable, but also think there are other, vital, aspects in which they're completely different. One is the availability, search, and representation of very large amounts of data. If I want to find a research paper, the last thing I want to do is walk into a 3D reconstruction of a library and thumb through a 3D replication of filing cabinets. What I want is a 2D search screen with a bunch of fields I can type search text into, because that's a vastly more efficient way of getting the information I need.

I think that 3D will be increasingly used on the net, but my guess is that it will be targeted, rather than general. By which I mean that you'll go to Ford's 2D website, and there'll be an option to test-drive one of their cars around a 3D virtual world. That model provides Ford will all the benefits (from their perspective) of a VW, without the tubgirl/flying-penis issues of the SL approach.

I look too at the relative popularity of Facebook and SL, and wonder whether increases in computer power and network bandwidth will go more towards things that directly enhance real-world communication between people, than enhanced VW capability.
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:15 PM   #31
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It should be noted that when I say virtual worlds will be adopted in much the same way as the internet, I'm not talking about the next couple years. I mean long-term. Give it 10 years and see where we are... thinking of the difference of 10 years ago to today.
(Kick: ignore this post if I've moved from "interesting discussion" to "won't she ever shut up?" mode, as I've sometimes been known to do ..... )

What do you see as the sort of technological breakthroughs needed to move VWs from niche to mainstream?
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Old 12-16-2010, 09:32 PM   #32
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Who was it that did just that in SL? Honda I think?
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Old 12-17-2010, 04:35 AM   #33
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Lecktor, actually, if you do a search for "car company Second Life", a bunch of companies come up that sold virtual cars in SL. They seem to be centered around 2006.

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It may still be "early" days, but I still don't see the drivers that will push for really large scale adoption of virtual worlds, on the scale that makes them comparable to the internet as a whole. LL don't seem to have been able to find these drivers either (which may, or may not, be a point in favour of my argument ).
That's easy, the "drivers" are the consumers/creators. Just like the internet, which took a little while for the wave(s) to build... I expect the same to happen with virtual worlds. The usage will grow piece by piece until it reaches the point where it's suddenly a feature of everyday life for a large amount of people.


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I agree with a number of your points about how SL and the general internet are comparable, but also think there are other, vital, aspects in which they're completely different. One is the availability, search, and representation of very large amounts of data. If I want to find a research paper, the last thing I want to do is walk into a 3D reconstruction of a library and thumb through a 3D replication of filing cabinets. What I want is a 2D search screen with a bunch of fields I can type search text into, because that's a vastly more efficient way of getting the information I need.
I couldn't agree more with this. Which is why I stay away from saying VWs will replace the internet. VWs fill a dimensional gap that the internet is missing; but it doesn't replace the ease, straight-forward results and abilities that the browser experience provides.


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(Kick: ignore this post if I've moved from "interesting discussion" to "won't she ever shut up?" mode, as I've sometimes been known to do ..... )

What do you see as the sort of technological breakthroughs needed to move VWs from niche to mainstream?
Nah, you're nowhere near "shut up"!

The first three that pop to mind are:

Graphics - Have gotten better over the years, Mesh will improve that... but they need to get a lot better in order for people to stop seeing VWs as a Beta experience.

Population Load - If VWs are to become a companion to the internet, they will need to be able to be used just as widely. Having a limit of 40 avatars per sim and whatever the total load can hold (in SL) is nowhere near enough. Luckily, they're aware of that and trying to prepare for the future. (I think.)

Hardware Advancements - Computers will continue to get better and cheaper. Eventually, having a computer that can easily run VWs will be commonplace, which will help with adoption of the tech. Of course, it will also help with the VW tech and the above 2 issues as well.


And a runner up:

Viewers - The available selection is lacking. If I had the knowledge on how to do it, I would make one of my own. Break it all down and build it from square 1 ideas. But the point is, Viewers will need to evolve a few more degrees before their ready for prime-time.
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Old 12-17-2010, 07:53 AM   #34
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Nah, you're nowhere near "shut up"!


OK. Then just take it as a "standing (exit) offer" then.

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Originally Posted by Kick Frenzy View Post
That's easy, the "drivers" are the consumers/creators. Just like the internet, which took a little while for the wave(s) to build... I expect the same to happen with virtual worlds. The usage will grow piece by piece until it reaches the point where it's suddenly a feature of everyday life for a large amount of people.
But I still don't see this trend playing out. Maybe your argument is that it won't *until* the other improvements you list are in place, in which case we just have to wait and see. But right now, to me, it looks like the move is away from SL-style creation for all. SL numbers seem to be stable or falling. And the post-SL VWs (eg., Google's ill-fated Lively) seem to mostly limit creation to the trivial ("choose the colour of your couch in your apartment").

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Graphics - Have gotten better over the years, Mesh will improve that... but they need to get a lot better in order for people to stop seeing VWs as a Beta experience.
At a technical level (polygon counts, etc), WoW's graphics are nothing to write home about. But 13 million people play (and pay for) WoW, compared to SL's order 0.5 million (*). So, we don't seem to need "next gen" graphics to attract large numbers of people. But WoW has a "hook", and a potent one - the standard MMO addictiveness, which basically works along similar lines to gambling (random, infrequent, but not *too* infrequent, rewards).

Increasing sophistication of graphics is a double-edged sword too. Yes, better quality graphics will attract more players. But the more sophisticated the available graphics capability, the more effort and skill is required to produce matching quality content - we have seen this in the ever-increasing budget and team size for "AAA" games. This ever-rising bar will progressively reduce the number of people able to produce quality content.

(*) Rule of thumb for number of players of an MMO: number logged in at peak-time, mutiplied by five. For SL, that's something like 5 * 80K = 400K.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:01 AM   #35
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I guess from now on I doubt I will ever be in PG land.
Neither will the kids.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:07 AM   #36
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Neither will the kids.
~THOSE~ kids have been on the grid all along. In that case, why assume anything is changing at all? (O.o)
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3 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)
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