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Old 11-29-2012, 08:20 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Io Zeno View Post
And frankly, claiming that "he only had 1.6 billion" as some sort of pass to give to charity.... most of us who DO make under 50k a year, for fucks sake.
Your preaching to the wrong man. I make &35k a year and have given away over $15k in the last 10 years.

And I wasn't say Steve wasn't an asshole. He was.
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:58 PM   #122
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But IS IT in fact worse off because Apple or Microsoft patented that thing, or is it worse off BECAUSE it, on its own, never capitalized on or was even interested in its own invention?
Irrelevant.

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Look I'm not trying to troll you or make you mad; I'm just saying, tell me what the alternate history would've been here. How long did Xerox sit on the GUI before Apple or whomever decided to start building on it? If Apple did not do that, and Xerox just continued to do nothing with its rudimentary GUI...that's it? Nobody else ever does anything with the GUI out of deference to Xerox's wishes, ever, period? We're all still using DOS right now?

Doubtful. Eventually someone would have either created a new concept from the ground up, or licensed the concept from Xerox, as they should have, unless Xerox was interested in selling it.

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Or are we assuming that Xerox definitely would have picked up its abandoned invention again and become a powerhouse? I mean yeah, okay, I'll 100% concede that Approsoft getting a patent on that thing meant Xerox's investors and shareholders never got the money they could've had. But they also never would've got that money if Apple never touched the GUI at all and Xerox just continued to do what it was already doing at that moment in time. Right or wrong?
Again, irrelevant. If Apple would have played by ethics then Xerox would have been offered a proper licensing deal or been made an offer to sell the GUI to Apple. That didn't happen. Steve toured the place and then ripped off the ideas.

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We're talking about blame, right? Between Approsoft and the Xerox patent/legal protection division, which one had the biggest responsibility to making sure Xerox's shareholders got the biggest possible return, and which one failed that responsibility the most?
No. We're talking about ethics. Blame is, also, irrelevant. It doesn't matter who gets the blame after the fact, the damage has already been done.

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And stop confusing my blaming Xerox with "support for Steve Jobs"; blame is not a zero-sum thing.
There's no blame to place. Xerox owned the concept and Jobs stole it from Xerox. He did it. That's not under scrutiny it's an accepted fact that Jobs took the concept from Xerox and made it his own, and then made an obscene amount of money from it.

It's worth noting that unless Gates had shoved his foot in the door with Windows, Apple wouldn't have climbed out of the hobbyist market. It's because of the success of Microsoft that Apple was able to carve a notch in the landscape.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:30 AM   #123
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We're all still using DOS right now?
You say that like it's a bad thing.











And yes, what the hell, I'm going in, I'm going to do this! I'm going to suggest that the last version of DOS *was* computing nirvana compared to what followed!
  • Command-line-interface - YUM! Fast, efficient, and kept computer access to the "right sort" of people ......you know, people like ......... well ...... US!
  • "DLL Hell" was just a nightmare for the future. Installing application "X" didn't run the risk that 100% independent application "Y" would just stop working!
  • If you had an OS problem, the scorched earth approach of reinstallation took four floppies and five minutes!
  • DOS4GW and the gnu gcc compilers had effectively eliminated Gate's 640K RAM "gift"!
  • Third parties provided libraries for graphics and sound. Remember the Miles Sound System? And later OpenGL provided unification across HW and OS platforms. These libraries were small and lean, and MS couldn't sell a new version of Windows simply on the basis of it having a different arrangement of blinking lights on the desktop, and being the only way to get access to the latest version of DirectX!
  • And most important of all ...... in a non-multi-tasking environment it would be accepted as completely natural that you didn't respond to work emails with less than a 24-hour delay!!!!
"DOS - you know it makes sense!"
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:07 AM   #124
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And yes, what the hell, I'm going in, I'm going to do this! I'm going to suggest that the last version of DOS *was* computing nirvana compared to what followed!

  • Command-line-interface - YUM! Fast, efficient, and kept computer access to the "right sort" of people ......you know, people like ......... well ...... US!
  • "DLL Hell" was just a nightmare for the future. Installing application "X" didn't run the risk that 100% independent application "Y" would just stop working!
  • If you had an OS problem, the scorched earth approach of reinstallation took four floppies and five minutes!
  • DOS4GW and the gnu gcc compilers had effectively eliminated Gate's 640K RAM "gift"!
  • Third parties provided libraries for graphics and sound. Remember the Miles Sound System? And later OpenGL provided unification across HW and OS platforms. These libraries were small and lean, and MS couldn't sell a new version of Windows simply on the basis of it having a different arrangement of blinking lights on the desktop, and being the only way to get access to the latest version of DirectX!
  • And most important of all ...... in a non-multi-tasking environment it would be accepted as completely natural that you didn't respond to work emails with less than a 24-hour delay!!!!
"DOS - you know it makes sense!"
I have no idea what any of this actually means, but it sounds kinda hot.


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Old 11-30-2012, 06:53 PM   #125
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I have no idea what any of this actually means, but it sounds kinda hot.
Govi:

I'd hate to be an interfering busy-body, and you know I think you've been doing a wonderful job with Cody thus far, but I have to ask - do you think it might be time to have "the talk" with him? And if so, perhaps it would be easier for him if we dragged one of the guys in to help out - I note that both Envoy and Johnny are in this thread for example, and I'm sure either would do a sterling job.

We could ask Luc - he's very generous and always happy to help with anything. Though I can't help but suspect that his approach might be a little beyond the "Sex 101" level we need here:

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So, I'm guessing you've never pulled a tampon out of a girl, by grabbing the string with your teeth, pulling your head back, and then went on to lick her pussy, Dakota?
Anyway, just a thought, and keep up the good work - I don't envy your job!

All the best,
Cale.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:06 PM   #126
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I'm not sure "the talk" will be sufficient, but I'm a little afraid of what would be. Nonetheless, you're right, clearly something is needed. I think Textured Surface for the southron touch and a strong lash of Luc (that alliterates very nicely and probably aptly, too) might put things in perspective for the young manling.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:11 PM   #127
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A random thought: Do you think Mademoiselle Laplace could help differentiate things for him?
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:45 PM   #128
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And if so, perhaps it would be easier for him if we dragged one of the guys in to help out - I note that both Envoy and Johnny are in this thread for example, and I'm sure either would do a sterling job.
I'll speak to him after I'm done with my fitting.

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Old 11-30-2012, 11:02 PM   #129
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Govi:

I'd hate to be an interfering busy-body, and you know I think you've been doing a wonderful job with Cody thus far, but I have to ask - do you think it might be time to have "the talk" with him? And if so, perhaps it would be easier for him if we dragged one of the guys in to help out - I note that both Envoy and Johnny are in this thread for example, and I'm sure either would do a sterling job.

We could ask Luc - he's very generous and always happy to help with anything. Though I can't help but suspect that his approach might be a little beyond the "Sex 101" level we need here:



Anyway, just a thought, and keep up the good work - I don't envy your job!

All the best,
Cale.

<--- Thanks God he isn't in this thread.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:20 PM   #130
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Trout!! Perfect! You and Envoy will be perfect to drill a little sense into Cody's head with a suitably informative "talk." We're counting on you!
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:44 PM   #131
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A random thought: Do you think Mademoiselle Laplace could help differentiate things for him?
For less dire cases than Cody I'm sure it would, but here I'm afraid that rather than "la place" he'd see "lap lace", or perhaps even "lovelace", and things would only get .......... stickier.
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Old 11-30-2012, 11:53 PM   #132
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Trout!! Perfect! You and Envoy will be perfect to drill a little sense into Cody's head with a suitably informative "talk." We're counting on you!
I'm a complete degenerate. If he talks to me, he'll end up with a folder full of naked pictures (they actually use binders now), a pretty good poker game, and the penchant for drinking bourbon out of a coffee mug. I'm not sure you want that sort of influence on him.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:04 AM   #133
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Only the best for the boy...

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Old 12-01-2012, 01:37 AM   #134
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Speaking of apples...






And Xerox...




And Microsoft...

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