Banner by Fmeh

Go Back   Second Citizen MK II > The Islands: Off Topic & Other > Techie Reiki Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes

Old 11-27-2012, 09:36 PM   #81
Bunnie
making Unregistered a sammich!

Bunnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,930
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

__________________
It's been lovely but I have to scream now.
Bunnie is offline   Reply With Quote
3 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?

Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 PM   #82
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVann View Post
Hams, you aren't arguing with me. I made no value judgement. I just said he didn't do anything illegal. I didn't say what he did was ethical or right, just that it wasn't illegal
Dear child, wouldn't it be nice if people took the high road more often and did what was ethical and right instead of what they can get away with by the letter of the law?
__________________


Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-27-2012, 10:08 PM   #83
Cale Vinson
Senior Member

Cale Vinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,925
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
... wouldn't it be nice if people took the high road more often and did what was ethical and right instead of what they can get away with by the letter of the law?
This is what I'd like too.

But I know it won't happen in the real-world, because in the real-world there are people who place the *acquisition* of wealth over everything else (pride in their work, etc), and for them the law is the only (limited) restriction on that desire. Because of that, I think we need to explicitly design our laws so that they reward wealth creation over transfer/acquisition (*), but I also know that that too will never happen because that's clearly socialism! or something.
Cale Vinson is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:
3 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-28-2012, 10:59 AM   #84
JohnnyVann
Rocky Mountain Hi! :wave:

JohnnyVann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,570
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cale Vinson View Post
(rant ON)

Which is why, in that wonderful fluffy-cloud-filled-land that is the empire of Vinsonia, Gates, Jobs, and their ilk are acknowledged as "great" (note the ironic quotation marks) business men, but not as computer visionaries. Either of them would have been just as financially successful by applying the same (ethically wrong) principles they used at Microsoft and Apple, to the task of selling toasters.
__________________
"The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well"
JohnnyVann is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
The following user says thanks:

Old 11-28-2012, 11:02 AM   #85
JohnnyVann
Rocky Mountain Hi! :wave:

JohnnyVann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,570
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
Dear child, wouldn't it be nice if people took the high road more often and did what was ethical and right instead of what they can get away with by the letter of the law?
Bams, you kep arguing with your imaginary friend. You are imagining what I am saying and then arguing against it. I've said he was a asshole. I've said what he did wasn't ethical. All I've said was it wasn't illegal.
JohnnyVann is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-28-2012, 06:31 PM   #86
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVann View Post
Bams, you kep arguing with your imaginary friend.
Sure feels that way sometimes.
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote
3 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-28-2012, 07:04 PM   #87
Cale Vinson
Senior Member

Cale Vinson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,925
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVann View Post
I have to confess I came *this* close to buying one of these when they first arrived in Australia - the allure of those 76 different colour options was strong indeed!

But in the end, the locking-in to it working with "iBread only" (available now at the App store!) was just one hurdle too many for me.

Cale Vinson is offline   Reply With Quote
3 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:

Old 11-28-2012, 07:07 PM   #88
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Is iBread a Hostess acquisition?
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote
4 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?

Old 11-28-2012, 08:00 PM   #89
JohnnyVann
Rocky Mountain Hi! :wave:

JohnnyVann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,570
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
Is iBread a Hostess acquisition?
iDon'tKnow
JohnnyVann is offline   Reply With Quote
This user groaned at this post:
2 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #90
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

That reminds me of Cody's favorite Apple product: iDidn'tDoIt.
__________________
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
5 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?
The following user disagrees:

Old 11-28-2012, 11:50 PM   #91
Imnotgoing Sideways
-

Imnotgoing Sideways's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rez Date: Nov 03, 2007
Location: Darkly Cute :: Ferguson
Posts: 3,515
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Imnotgoing Sideways Send a message via Skype™ to Imnotgoing Sideways
Awards Showcase
Cuter Than Thou 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

iLol'd. (^_^)
Imnotgoing Sideways is offline   Reply With Quote
4 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:

Old 11-29-2012, 01:53 AM   #92
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
If someone showed up today with something YOU invented, but didn't think was important enough to patent X number of years ago, you'd be pretty upset they took YOUR idea and turned it into money. Especially if it's pretty much concept for concept.
Well sure, but we're not talking about some poor schmuck sitting in his living room watching Apple commercials selling something he invented first; we're talking about Xerox - again, at the time a huge corporation with lots of money, industrial clout, and a top-rung legal team whose job presumably was to have hcszit like this covered. I can't feel sorry for them the same way I'd feel sorry for a private citizen. Corporations aren't people.

Why are you guys acting like if it had been Xerox rather than Apple that had gotten the patent-that-started-it-all, we wouldn't be sitting here right now whining about how awful and abusive Xerox and its crappy bloated products are?
__________________
"...Dakota will grow up to be very scary... but in a HOT and desireable kind of way." - 3Ring Binder

Builder
Virtual Urchin
Proud Owner of Post #5000
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:

Old 11-29-2012, 02:01 AM   #93
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
And it was Apple -- not Microsoft -- who ripped off Xerox according to Xerox. It was Apple that accused Microsoft of ripping off Apple. If you don't know the history of this -- you're only twelve, after all -- you can at least keep up with the thread when posting.
Apple, Microsoft...honest diff? Big Evil Software Giant, Inc. is what we're talking about right?

While we're on it, I never really announced or decided on my av's age; however, most sources tell me my av looks around ten/eleven-ish...SOOOOO your attempt at a put-down actually becomes a compliment and is therefore fail and I win so

Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:

Old 11-29-2012, 02:07 AM   #94
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Well sure, but we're not talking about some poor schmuck sitting in his living room watching Apple commercials selling something he invented first; we're talking about Xerox - again, at the time a huge corporation with lots of money, industrial clout, and a top-rung legal team whose job presumably was to have hcszit like this covered. I can't feel sorry for them the same way I'd feel sorry for a private citizen. Corporations aren't people.
Intellectual property is intellectual property. Someone at XEROX/PARC was the creator of that concept and someone else TOOK that concept FOR THEIR OWN and marketed it as if it was THEIR idea and they were the DEMI-GOD(s) of computing for doing so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Why are you guys acting like if it had been Xerox rather than Apple that had gotten the patent-that-started-it-all, we wouldn't be sitting here right now whining about how awful and abusive Xerox and its crappy bloated products are?
No one said anything like that, at least I didn't read that anywhere.

What HAS been said is that Apple (and Microsoft) are known for, and have been responsible for many a theft where intellectual property is concerned. Corporations aren't untouchable invisible entities that are doing this, there's a PERSON (or group of people) at the helm of the beast that's devouring creative thought and stifling ingenuity.
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote
The following user says thanks:
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 02:09 AM   #95
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
Apple, Microsoft...honest diff? Big Evil Software Giant, Inc. is what we're talking about right?

While we're on it, I never really announced or decided on my av's age; however, most sources tell me my av looks around ten/eleven-ish...SOOOOO your attempt at a put-down actually becomes a compliment and is therefore fail and I win so

You know you're annoying, right?
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:

Old 11-29-2012, 09:14 AM   #96
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
You know you're annoying, right?
That has to be the nicest mean-thing you've ever said to me, Bams.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-29-2012, 09:27 AM   #97
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
Intellectual property is intellectual property. Someone at XEROX/PARC was the creator of that concept and someone else TOOK that concept FOR THEIR OWN and marketed it as if it was THEIR idea and they were the DEMI-GOD(s) of computing for doing so.
That "someone", that poor unnamed soul, would still be poor and unnamed if Xerox had gotten the patent for itself. And it would've, of course. The patent would say "Xerox", not the name of the actual alleged person/people who designed the thing. Again, all we're talking about here is one huge faceless megacorp "cheating" another huge faceless megacorp out of a patent due to the latter huge faceless megacorp's lapse of competence. If Xerox had "won", it'd be them instead of Apple TAKING CREDIT for an actual person(s)'s work, would it not?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
No one said anything like that, at least I didn't read that anywhere.

What HAS been said is that Apple (and Microsoft) are known for, and have been responsible for many a theft where intellectual property is concerned. Corporations aren't untouchable invisible entities that are doing this, there's a PERSON (or group of people) at the helm of the beast that's devouring creative thought and stifling ingenuity.
And occasionally they steal such a meal from the paws of another beast, identical in all but name. Care? Not me. Corporations have profits and losses, not "hopes and dreams". Xerox's executives still made fat fortunes for themselves without this patent.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
The following user disagrees:

Old 11-29-2012, 10:50 AM   #98
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

The fact is that these "huge faceless megacorps" are not: they are people. And their fanbois are people. Their apologists are people. Their attackers are people. By your argument, we would have no reason to criticize any of these things, because they're some form of "huge faceless megacorp," which is ridiculous.

As to the page turning business -- back to the OP -- this is so colossally wrong on the part of the patent office that it boggles the mind. Disney and his competition used it in cartoons and movies all through the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Then, Apple decides to put it on an electronic screen and it's new and innovative, according to the dips in the Patent Office? Give me a break.
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
The following user says thanks:
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 11:06 AM   #99
JohnnyVann
Rocky Mountain Hi! :wave:

JohnnyVann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,570
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imnotgoing Sideways View Post
iLol'd. (^_^)
The Apple legal department will be in touch with you shortly
JohnnyVann is offline   Reply With Quote
5 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 11:43 AM   #100
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
The fact is that these "huge faceless megacorps" are not: they are people. And their fanbois are people. Their apologists are people. Their attackers are people. By your argument, we would have no reason to criticize any of these things, because they're some form of "huge faceless megacorp," which is ridiculous.
It's not the fact that the actor is a huge faceless megacorp; it's the fact that the victim is a huge faceless megacorp. The megacorp itself as an imaginary character, not the people who comprise it. Surely you don't think that for instance there is or was an individual at Xerox who didn't get a raise, but who would've gotten a raise if Xerox had patented the thing. Even the person who created the GUI didn't lose anything extra that he didn't lose instantly upon finishing it, since creating the thing was paid work he did for the company and Xerox would've immediately classified it as something that "WE" developed, not something that HE developed.

I don't think you can show me an actual person connected with Xerox who actually suffered, was actually harmed as a result of this loss.

But! If you can show me such a person I'll capitulate immediately and admit I was wrong. And you of all people Govi should know how momentous that would be coming from me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
As to the page turning business -- back to the OP -- this is so colossally wrong on the part of the patent office that it boggles the mind. Disney and his competition used it in cartoons and movies all through the 30s, 40s, and 50s. Then, Apple decides to put it on an electronic screen and it's new and innovative, according to the dips in the Patent Office? Give me a break.
Well - that's getting into weird computer stuff too that I don't really understand too well. I don't get for example how a "font" could be "patented", but I think it can be. I guess the patent office decided that things like the motifs that windows and boxes on a screen follow and the visual way in which they move and can be manipulated are all patentable things. I guess it makes as much sense as Coca Cola patenting the "shape" of its bottles. Just consider that the patent only applies to touch-screen devices (if I understand the language right), not slide-shows or other mediums.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 12:08 PM   #101
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Inventions have to be non-obvious, and that is the key. Patenting a door lock based on having a key that fitted into a hole that contained some mechanism for telling whether it was a valid key to unlock the door, that's not specific enough or non-obvious enough. Patenting a unique key with a unique lock to protect a door can be non-obvious.

Fonts are copyrighted, not patented.

Design patents are like copyrights, they have a lower threshold of non-obviousness, and require uniqueness and originality.

Xerox's shareholders were hurt by Apple's actions; they were deprived of the benefit of property that belonged to them. Individuals within Xerox were deprived of bonuses and patent prizes that are typical in corporations, paid to patent winners and paid to persons who invent a patentable idea that is particularly successful. However, it's none of that that's at issue here.

What has become at issue is that Apple asserts its original genius at creating the GUI and had the colossal gall to sue Microsoft (admittedly another idea stealer) over the Windows GUI, claiming that Microsoft had stolen an idea from Apple that Apple had itself stolen from Xerox. This sort of situation is ironic, hypocritical and deplorable. And it is people. Corporations, while sued, do not testify, people do. Corporations have their profits dinged either as punishment or by the expense of lawyers, but it is the people in and who own those corporations who pay in lost profits, lost value, lost wages, lost bonuses.
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users say thanks:
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?

Old 11-29-2012, 01:03 PM   #102
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
However, it's none of that that's at issue here.
You do realize that this is an out I could use to avoid having to admit I'm wrong if somebody fills my earlier-listed condition, right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
What has become at issue is that Apple asserts its original genius at creating the GUI and had the colossal gall to sue Microsoft (admittedly another idea stealer) over the Windows GUI, claiming that Microsoft had stolen an idea from Apple that Apple had itself stolen from Xerox. This sort of situation is ironic, hypocritical and deplorable.
Well that's true. That is ironic, hypocritical, and deplorable; I won't argue with that. But I don't agree that the original patent-grab is some kind of awful, evil depredation. If we're talking about the Olympics, and it's the 200-meter relay, and the team in the lead drops the baton during the last handoff and has to waste time picking it up, I wouldn't consider the second-place competitor to have done a bad thing if they kept going at speed and ended up winning first place as a result. That's how I perceive this situation.

But yeah, now if that team that kept going at speed's runner trips over his shoes in the last 10 meters because he didn't tie them right and is passed by a third team, if they started complaining that the third team took advantage of them unfairly after they had no truck taking advantage of the first team's fumble, yeah that would be stupid.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 03:44 PM   #103
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

It's not the same thing.
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?

Old 11-29-2012, 04:15 PM   #104
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
It's not the same thing.
Fine then, ummm...

...if Xerox's quarterback waited too long to throw a pass to a now-covered receiver and one of Apple's linebackers intercepted and ran all the way down the field for a turnover TD because Xerox's offense was too stunned to work effectively enough to tackle him, the rules say that's not cheating. How's that?
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote

In case you thought the American patent system wasn't broken
Old 11-29-2012, 04:57 PM   #105
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default In case you thought the American patent system wasn't broken

No.


Some things really are their own best metaphor.
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
One user says 'MMmmm. Pie':

Old 11-29-2012, 05:11 PM   #106
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

If Xerox was concentrating too much on developing a defense on his queenside and thoughtlessly hangs one of his knights in the center, which allows Apple to set up and kick off an exchange which costs Xerox a queen, a knight, and two pawns in return for a bishop, knight, and a pawn...?
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 06:38 PM   #107
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

You do want dinner tonight, yes?
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users laughed. The question is: Are they laughing with you, or at you?:
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?

Old 11-29-2012, 07:07 PM   #108
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
That "someone", that poor unnamed soul, would still be poor and unnamed if Xerox had gotten the patent for itself. And it would've, of course. The patent would say "Xerox", not the name of the actual alleged person/people who designed the thing. Again, all we're talking about here is one huge faceless megacorp "cheating" another huge faceless megacorp out of a patent due to the latter huge faceless megacorp's lapse of competence. If Xerox had "won", it'd be them instead of Apple TAKING CREDIT for an actual person(s)'s work, would it not?
You're splitting hairs. STEALING is STEALING is doesn't matter if it's from a single person or a corporation of people those ideas belong to SOMEONE ELSE


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
And occasionally they steal such a meal from the paws of another beast, identical in all but name. Care? Not me. Corporations have profits and losses, not "hopes and dreams". Xerox's executives still made fat fortunes for themselves without this patent.
None of this matters if we're talking about ethics and morals. It's not OK to rip-off someone because they have more than you do, or will not be impacted in a detrimental way by your theft.

THEFT IS FUCKING THEFT.
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 07:08 PM   #109
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Govi View Post
You do want dinner tonight, yes?



Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:

Old 11-29-2012, 07:13 PM   #110
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
I don't think you can show me an actual person connected with Xerox who actually suffered, was actually harmed as a result of this loss.
Sometimes I wish I had a virual ruler I could smack you with.

If XEROX loses money then it can't keep running it's operations and the people that work for XEROX are SUFFERING because the corporation isn't doing as well as it might have been had it been granted the right (and ethical) to it's own materials.

When companies fail the people that work for them no longer have viable jobs and therefore cannot contribute to economic growth and instead contribute to economic hardship. Didn't you learn anything from the Hostess discussion?

While Xerox didn't go out of business, it surely isn't Apple or Microsoft, and the employees and partners of Xerox are worse off than if Xerox had gotten what was due it and been granted the right to license the technology Apple and Microsoft had stolen.
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 07:20 PM   #111
Lain (is Bams)
For-uhm Boredz Creator

Lain (is Bams)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Sep 23, 2007
Location: The Real World
Posts: 5,633
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota Tebaldi View Post
But I don't agree that the original patent-grab is some kind of awful, evil depredation.
Because you're unwilling to admit that your personal Jesus, Steve Jobs, is a greedy pile of shit that ripped off the very thing that made his company what it is. Without the GUI, neither Apple or Microsoft would be where they are today.

You ignore facts, push aside reality, and continue to cling to this ridiculous fantasy that people are all genuinely good inside and the evil is committed by these nameless, faceless corporations.

Nameless, faceless corporations are SHIELDS so that the people operating them can act in the most vile way all while pointing the finger at the shareholders. We have to profit for the shareholders, at all costs, regardless of those pesky ethics and morals, because that's how corporations work.

It's PEOPLE that form these corporations, and the EVIL committed by them is, was, and always has been the fault of one or more PERSONS working in harmony to advance the cause, their pocketbooks.

Steve Jobs isn't some philanthropic guru full of love and caring. He's a ruthless business man with a limited creative vision that had the tools to exploit those around him stupid enough to look up to him as though he was the messiah.

At least Bill Gates had the common decency to just be a fucking crook, like all of the rest of them.
Lain (is Bams) is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 07:28 PM   #112
Io Zeno
Have An Apple

Io Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Transition
Posts: 13,923
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

At least Gates gave millions and millions of dollars of his money to charity.

Jobs couldn't have cared less.

Which is why I didn't, either, when he croaked. Of his own choice, btw, he refused standard treatments until it was too late. Boo-hoo.

He died as he lived, as an arrogant asshole.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathiee McMillan View Post
you get off the planet Bitch!
Io Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 07:30 PM   #113
Io Zeno
Have An Apple

Io Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Transition
Posts: 13,923
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Also: I didn't think a company could make Microsoft look good.

Until Apple.
Io Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 07:36 PM   #114
Govi
Ça va chier.

Govi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Rez Date: Mar 06, 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 20,631
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Io Zeno View Post
Also: I didn't think a company could make Microsoft look good.

Until Apple.
Govi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 07:39 PM   #115
JohnnyVann
Rocky Mountain Hi! :wave:

JohnnyVann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,570
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 
Total Awards: 1
Default

Gates didn't start giving money away until he was worth >$20 Billion. Not to diminish what he and his wife have given (and done - evidently he's fairly "hands on" as far as billionaires go) but I'm not willing to say he's a great man. It's a lot easier to give stuff away when you are rich and won't miss it

Not making any judgements or comments but:

Steve Jobs at deat net worth was $1.5 billion (I think)

Bill Gates is currently worth $61 Billion
JohnnyVann is offline   Reply With Quote
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-29-2012, 07:53 PM   #116
Io Zeno
Have An Apple

Io Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Transition
Posts: 13,923
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyVann View Post
Gates didn't start giving money away until he was worth >$20 Billion. Not to diminish what he and his wife have given (and done - evidently he's fairly "hands on" as far as billionaires go) but I'm not willing to say he's a great man. It's a lot easier to give stuff away when you are rich and won't miss it

Not making any judgements or comments but:

Steve Jobs at deat net worth was $1.5 billion (I think)

Bill Gates is currently worth $61 Billion
I didn't say he was a great man.

My point was, as much of an asshole as both of them are and were, one of them did some good, at least.
Io Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
2 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 07:54 PM   #117
Io Zeno
Have An Apple

Io Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Transition
Posts: 13,923
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

And frankly, claiming that "he only had 1.6 billion" as some sort of pass to give to charity.... most of us who DO make under 50k a year, for fucks sake.
Io Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
This user agrees. But then, who wouldn't, right?
The following user offers hugs:

Old 11-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #118
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lain (is Bams) View Post
If XEROX loses money then it can't keep running it's operations and the people that work for XEROX are SUFFERING because the corporation isn't doing as well as it might have been had it been granted the right (and ethical) to it's own materials.

When companies fail the people that work for them no longer have viable jobs and therefore cannot contribute to economic growth and instead contribute to economic hardship. Didn't you learn anything from the Hostess discussion?

While Xerox didn't go out of business, it surely isn't Apple or Microsoft, and the employees and partners of Xerox are worse off than if Xerox had gotten what was due it and been granted the right to license the technology Apple and Microsoft had stolen.
But IS IT in fact worse off because Apple or Microsoft patented that thing, or is it worse off BECAUSE it, on its own, never capitalized on or was even interested in its own invention?

Look I'm not trying to troll you or make you mad; I'm just saying, tell me what the alternate history would've been here. How long did Xerox sit on the GUI before Apple or whomever decided to start building on it? If Apple did not do that, and Xerox just continued to do nothing with its rudimentary GUI...that's it? Nobody else ever does anything with the GUI out of deference to Xerox's wishes, ever, period? We're all still using DOS right now?

Or are we assuming that Xerox definitely would have picked up its abandoned invention again and become a powerhouse? I mean yeah, okay, I'll 100% concede that Approsoft getting a patent on that thing meant Xerox's investors and shareholders never got the money they could've had. But they also never would've got that money if Apple never touched the GUI at all and Xerox just continued to do what it was already doing at that moment in time. Right or wrong?

We're talking about blame, right? Between Approsoft and the Xerox patent/legal protection division, which one had the biggest responsibility to making sure Xerox's shareholders got the biggest possible return, and which one failed that responsibility the most?

And stop confusing my blaming Xerox with "support for Steve Jobs"; blame is not a zero-sum thing.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old 11-29-2012, 08:03 PM   #119
Io Zeno
Have An Apple

Io Zeno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: In Transition
Posts: 13,923
My Mood:
Awards Showcase
28th 5k trainwreck 
Total Awards: 2
Default

I think it's obvious that Xerox didn't know what they were sitting on and Jobs and Gates were able to see the potential for these inventions that their creators did not.

That doesn't give them the right to steal them, however.
Io Zeno is offline   Reply With Quote
3 users agreed. You should agree too, c'mon, you know you want to. (click it, click it now!)

Old 11-29-2012, 08:15 PM   #120
Dakota Tebaldi
Modern Urchin

Dakota Tebaldi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Down by the bay, where the watermelons grow
Posts: 12,512
My Mood:
Send a message via Yahoo to Dakota Tebaldi
Default

I like the name "Approsoft" by the way. You guys can use it as much as you want for whatever, I don't mind.
Dakota Tebaldi is offline   Reply With Quote
This user laughed so hard that they peed a little:
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
apple is not alone, apple sucks, apple triviality, everyone does it

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:32 PM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Second Life® and Linden Lab® are trademarks of Linden Research, Inc.
Second Citizen MK II Forums are not affiliated with or sponsored by Linden Research.
© 2009 - 2011 Second Citizen MKII [SC MKII]
| Home | Register | FAQ | Members List | Calendar | Today's Posts | Search | New Posts |