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Bitcoin crash
Old 12-18-2013, 12:02 PM   #1
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25428866

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Bitcoin has fallen to less than half the value it recently traded for, following reports of fresh action by Beijing to restrict trade in the virtual currency.

BTC China has said that local payment companies have been blocked from providing it with clearing services.

It means that the firm - the world's biggest Bitcoin exchange in terms of trading volumes - can no longer accept yuan-based deposits.
Expect another propaganda push for buying bitcoins over the next few weeks as all the big in the know investors get back on board after having dumped their stock in the last few days.

The top post on /r/bitcoins over on reddit is a suicide hotline for all the suckers these wankers suckered in at +900 dollars a "coin".

I feel really sorry for anyone that fell for this, but, at the same time, it's not like there wasn't people online warning everyone that this isn't a currency, it's a high risk investment in an intangible commodity with absolutely no intrinsic value.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:07 PM   #2
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Tulip Bubble.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:09 PM   #3
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Tulips look good in vase. Though.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:21 PM   #4
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Of course. When prices are driven up purely by speculation there's always a crash of some kind that follows; it's practically inevitable.

There are examples even in SL. Bay City land prices, anyone?
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:30 PM   #5
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The prices were driven up by well placed stories in the media and an army of shills online telling people to get on board. Wasn't there someone here shilling it a few months back too?

I wonder if he made out like a bandit or if he's sitting in a dark room with a bottle of whisky right now.
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:46 PM   #6
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The prices were driven up by well placed stories in the media and an army of shills online telling people to get on board. Wasn't there someone here shilling it a few months back too?
I don't remember. I think I and someone else made fun of Bitcoin a bit.
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Old 12-18-2013, 01:14 PM   #7
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Bound to happen eventually. Always seemed kind of like Amway or a ponzu scam to me.
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Old 12-18-2013, 02:44 PM   #8
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The first time I ever heard the word "bitcoin" was in this article: http://www.theguardian.com/technolog...-landfill-site
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:13 PM   #9
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1 Bitcoin is still worth more than $1.

Just throwing that out there. Yeah it's awful/bad/terrible etc.

If you could only have one bitcoin or $1, you would have more value if you kept the bitcoin.

/shrug

The only comment I have on bitcoins is that they have done an amazing job of vitalizing the processor and graphic card industries. If you don't want to invest in the bitcoin then fine, but investing in the people selling graphic cards that do the mining might be a sound investment. Especially as we reach the point where faster video cards are reaching a diminishing return point. I'm fascinated that the bitcoin's contribution to society has been to create pools of machines capable of producing trillions of calculations per second.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...cs,2560-3.html

Anyone know what kind of problems require huge amounts of processing power to solve? Cryptography comes to mind ... anything else?
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:49 PM   #10
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1 Bitcoin is still worth more than $1.

Just throwing that out there. Yeah it's awful/bad/terrible etc.

If you could only have one bitcoin or $1, you would have more value if you kept the bitcoin.

A CD player is also worth more than $1.

If you could only have one CD player or $1, you would have more value if you kept the CD player.

Now that we've established nothing new...
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:51 PM   #11
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Actually, I think you've established that bitcoins are like CD Players.

I'm not sure I agree though, I mean, I can't make a CD Player with nothing but a computer and electricity. It requires a lot of technological know-how and stuff.

But, you've established something new today. Give yourself a pat on the back! Or a fraction of a bitcoin.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:57 PM   #12
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Oh right! There's something else - a fraction of a bitcoin is actually worth something.

If I break 10% of my CD-Player, can I sell it for 90% of its original value?

Probably not, huh.

So ... maybe your comparison is kinda inaccurate and facile, huh?
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:01 PM   #13
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Old 12-20-2013, 01:26 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Merovigan View Post
The only comment I have on bitcoins is that they have done an amazing job of vitalizing the processor and graphic card industries. If you don't want to invest in the bitcoin then fine, but investing in the people selling graphic cards that do the mining might be a sound investment. Especially as we reach the point where faster video cards are reaching a diminishing return point. I'm fascinated that the bitcoin's contribution to society has been to create pools of machines capable of producing trillions of calculations per second.
I know. I mine Dogecoin for the lulz. Too bad mining programs can fry your GPU if improperly cooled.

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Old 12-20-2013, 03:42 PM   #15
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Actually, I think you've established that bitcoins are like CD Players.

I'm not sure I agree though, I mean, I can't make a CD Player with nothing but a computer and electricity. It requires a lot of technological know-how and stuff.
You can't make a computer or electricity, either - you have to get them from somewhere. And then interface them with internet service you have to get from somewhere else again.

Plus you have the fact that bitcoins don't actually exist - or rather, only exist as a certain amount of real $'s that someone is willing to give you at any particular time in exchange for allegorical custody of them. Kind of like Linden dollars!
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:03 PM   #16
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I can totally make electricity.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #17
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #18
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I can totally make electricity.
In theory? Sure. Maybe even enough to power your computer!

But I bet you don't.

And you still need an ISP, and you still had to get your computer from somewhere, and have to take it another where when it needs fixed or upgraded, etc.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:14 PM   #19
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I can totally make electricity.
Scuffing your feet on the carpet and then sneaking up on your kids and zapping them on the ear doesn't count. Neither does rubbing a balloon on your head and sticking it on a wall.

Counts as good parenting, though. You have to teach your kids not to let people sneak up behind them. Negative reinforcement totally works, and it's HILARIOUS.



In all seriousness, I'm with Mero on this one. People can totally make electricity. Wind, solar, turbine, hydro, bicycles hooked up to electric motors, etc.
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Old 12-20-2013, 05:27 PM   #20
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In all seriousness, I'm with Mero on this one. People can totally make electricity. Wind, solar, turbine, hydro, bicycles hooked up to electric motors, etc.
Yeah, but most people generally have to get those things from somewhere else.

The point is that Mero's objection is invalid - "I can't make a CD player (my example) with just a computer and electricity". Well, you can't make a bitcoin with just a computer and electricity either - you need an ISP for one thing; but besides that, you need a whole lot of other people deciding your bitcoin is worth anything more than anyone else's imaginary coin. And those other people are fickle dweebs too; a few days ago they all decided that, no matter how many bitcoins (or pieces of bitcoins) you have or how much time, electricity, computers, and miners you spent making them, they all now have less than half the value they had the day before. Ouch! If bitcoins were a real country's currency, that country's economy could be said to have crashed.
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Old 12-20-2013, 06:21 PM   #21
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Old 12-20-2013, 11:05 PM   #22
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1 Bitcoin is still worth more than $1.
Small comfort for the suckers that got in after it hit $800.
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Old 12-21-2013, 01:11 PM   #23
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1 Bitcoin is still worth more than $1
Can I interest you in the exciting career of selling Amway?
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Old 12-23-2013, 11:58 AM   #24
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Cosbycoins are the wave of the future. They are a true comodity based currency that is a real promise for real americans. Each coin can be either spent like money, or redeemed for a tasty pudding snack.

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Old 12-23-2013, 12:18 PM   #25
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Small comfort for the suckers that got in after it hit $800.
I don't disagree with you, however they should have known that it was a very volatile commodity. I'm sure they did know that so, I doubt they need much comfort. Bad things happen with volatile investments but some people would rather play the lottery and lose than not play at all.

Bitcoin is currently sitting at about $630 so the $800 investor has only seen about 22% of a loss.
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Old 12-23-2013, 12:21 PM   #26
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Can I interest you in the exciting career of selling Amway?
Yes, but only if the required commitment is configuring my video card to process data while I'm not using it. Anything more than that and I can't be bothered.
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Old 12-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #27
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Since you are an aficionado of bitcoins, you will find this thread highly relevant and improving: http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/s...ad.php?t=13060
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Old 12-24-2013, 11:44 AM   #28
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Aficionado? Nah. More like open-minded. I didn't read that thread thoroughly, but I didn't see anything bitcoin related so I assume you're making some esoteric joke I don't care to decipher because, ... meh.

Ponzi-scam or not, well ... who gives a shit? What's with the judgment? Why not participate on the gamble, if it is such? Or let those who want to gamble do so without being a douche about it? Why do there have to be so many (negative) conclusions when the fucking journey is the point? We're dealing with a capped-out currency, the first ever capped-out electronic cyrptographic currency in human history and some people would rather judge and mock than listen and ponder.

Bitcoin's up to $655, by the by.

I think the wise among us see this for what it is - a possible currency that is still in its infancy, and they are certainly manipulating the markets to make money off of it. So, when the wanna-be-wise see this and can't participate they get all butt-hurt about how their faux wisdom doesn't actually translate into higher income. And then they twist it into some retarded morality play and jokes.

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Dur dur, bitcoins! I'm so much better than that, let me reassure myself with the sound of my laughter, dur dur!
Maybe I sound like an aficionado or a fanboy of it, but I'm not. I just get sick of the failures knocking things they aren't a part of.

People are doing shit, and it's kinda cool. Over 12,000 businesses are now accepting bitcoins. If you can't appreciate how interesting and cool this is then please accept my pity, and a cane. You can shake it those "god durned kids!" who keep doing things that don't make any sense like using the internet to bank and having the gay marriages. Don't they know the interweb isn't secure and kids need a male and a female parent?!

Maybe bitcoins will last, maybe they won't, but they're here, now, and worth being aware of and perhaps even interacting with. Join a pool, try it out, participate.

Nah! SO much better to just judge without engaging, and pat yourself on the back for being above it all.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:54 PM   #29
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When I started in engineering, there was a rage throughout America of something that was literally called the Pyramid Scheme. People were "investing" thousands and those who got in very early made out nicely. Those who came in late lost. To a certain extent, all stock market investing can be like that in the short run, but ultimately, over the long run, the fact that there is an actual asset tied to the stock investment makes stock market investing an actual investment and not a pyramid scheme.

Bitcoins are not like that. They are a purely speculative play with one exception: their use in the transactions known as money laundering and in the purchase of illegal goods, since apparently, they are very difficult to trace.

My thread reference was to the fact that bitcoins are a joke. I'm sorry you didn't understand.
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Old 12-24-2013, 12:57 PM   #30
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SO much better to just judge without engaging, and pat yourself on the back for being above it all.
This is almost exactly what was said to me by a friend who was participating in the Pyramid Scheme. She lost all the money she had "invested."
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:21 PM   #31
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This is almost exactly what was said to me by a friend who was participating in the Pyramid Scheme. She lost all the money she had "invested."
How is this possible when the bitcoin still has value?
-edit-
Oh I see - you're talking about the actual Pyramid Scheme, not this new currency which is not like the Pyramid Scheme at all.
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Old 12-24-2013, 01:41 PM   #32
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #33
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Bitcoins are not like that. They are a purely speculative play with one exception: their use in the transactions known as money laundering and in the purchase of illegal goods, since apparently, they are very difficult to trace.
So, the ability to launder money and purchase illegal goods is speculative, to you? There's no way the market can put a value on that ... in your opinion.

K.

Ahem.

Yeah, so, I don't exactly agree with that. What's more I think the "coin" represents other things like "the promise of predictable supply" and a cap on how many will be created. It represents an expenditure of electricity and renting time on servers. It comes from specialized devices made to mint not only bitcoins but also altcoins.

So, I disagree with the idea of this being of "pure" speculation. It is clearly not. It may be a representation of things we do not normally associate with money such as central banks and governments, but really THOSE things were new to the idea of money at one point too. And they are not strictly required in order to transfer perceived value between two individuals, the actual point of money.

I bet you didn't agree with people who payed "real" money for Everquest gold, either.
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Old 12-24-2013, 02:13 PM   #34
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Also - just ten places you can use your bitcoins for things other than money laundering and illegal goods.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmaton...erchant-sites/

Ok, pirate bay is on there so maybe only 9. But you're just completely ignoring the link above to 12,000 other places that take the coin as currency because this version of money isn't valid to you.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:55 PM   #35
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Wait...illegal goods? What sort of illegal goods? Maybe I want some illegal goods. I might have to look into this bitcoin illegal-good purchasing scheme.
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Old 12-24-2013, 04:57 PM   #36
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Come to think ... wonder if you could get in-game virtual currency via bitcoins.
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Old 12-24-2013, 05:30 PM   #37
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Also - just ten places you can use your bitcoins for things other than money laundering and illegal goods.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmaton...erchant-sites/

Ok, pirate bay is on there so maybe only 9. But you're just completely ignoring the link above to 12,000 other places that take the coin as currency because this version of money isn't valid to you.
And next week, or next month, or next year, will they accept bitcoin in payment at the rate that currently exists or at all? I'm sure that there are large stashes of Green Stamps here and there in these United States, now almost completely worthless except to nostalgia item collectors.

Bitcoin, to be a workable currency in use beyond its current small envelope of participants, needs to be plentiful, in common use by a large number of market participants, and stable. It presently lacks all three qualities and thus is unlikely to go far beyond its current limited circulation.

In the meantime, a few will brag loudly about the money they've made and the many will sulk silently about the money they've lost, trading in bitcoins. When there are enough silent sulkers, they'll stop being silent and that will be the end of bitcoin.

In the meantime,
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Old 12-27-2013, 02:18 PM   #38
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I'm sure that there are large stashes of Green Stamps here and there in these United States, now almost completely worthless except to nostalgia item collectors.
Wow, talk about nostalgia! My parents would give me the Green Stamps from purchases as a kind of savings incentive/lesson. It only took me about a year to save enough for a camping mess kit!
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:42 PM   #39
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New York Times Sunday Business Section: Into the Bitcoin Mines

I had thought that the computing being done in that building had some relevance beyond bitcoin mining, but according to the Times' story, it has none. It is done solely to crack a code which when cracked releases to the cracker a bitcoin. It is similar to doing puzzles to get tokens which other puzzle solvers will accept in lieu of real world money or other scrip.

This is a really good job for a Randist.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:54 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bard Jameson View Post
Wow, talk about nostalgia! My parents would give me the Green Stamps from purchases as a kind of savings incentive/lesson. It only took me about a year to save enough for a camping mess kit!
I had that camping mess kit!
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