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Mozilla quietly ceases Firefox 64-bit development
Old 11-27-2012, 09:01 PM   #1
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Default Mozilla quietly ceases Firefox 64-bit development

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-575...t-development/

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Mozilla engineering manager Benjamin Smedberg has asked developers to stop nightly builds for Firefox versions optimized to run on 64-bit versions of Windows.

A developer thread posted on the Google Groups mozilla.dev.planning discussion board, titled "Turning off win64 builds" by Smedberg proposed the move.

Claiming that 64-bit Firefox is a "constant source of misunderstanding and frustration," the engineer wrote that the builds often crash, many plugins are not available in 64-bit versions, and hangs are more common due to a lack of coding which causes plugins to function incorrectly. In addition, Smedberg argues that this causes users to feel "second class," and crash reports between 32-bit and 64-bit versions are difficult to distinguish between for the stability team.
This is disappointing for me, as I use a 64 bit windows 7, and as the 32bit version of Firefox works alright, it still has the 2gb memory limitations of a 32bit program, and I tend to max out the browser a lot in that area. I was just looking up to see if there were any official versions only to find out that the whole thing had been discontinued. Oh well. Maybe Google will make a 64bit version of Chrome, as much as I don't want GoogleUpdater running on my system. It'll probably happen eventually, I'm just very disappointed in the Mozilla team for dropping 64bit.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:37 PM   #2
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There's no perceptible benefit acquired by using 64-Bit Firefox over it's 32-Bit counterpart. That's why development has ceased, it's pointless.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:38 PM   #3
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Maybe Google will make a 64bit version of Chrome, as much as I don't want GoogleUpdater running on my system.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #4
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There's no perceptible benefit acquired by using 64-Bit Firefox over it's 32-Bit counterpart. That's why development has ceased, it's pointless.
I constantly run across the 2gb barrier in Firefox 32bit edition, when it gets close to that barrier, the browser comes to a horrible crawl.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:49 PM   #5
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I constantly run across the 2gb barrier in Firefox 32bit edition, when it gets close to that barrier, the browser comes to a horrible crawl.
Dare I ask what you are doing with Firefox that's consuming 2GB of memory? Even with more than a dozen tabs open currently (I'm in Windows on Dragon) I'm only using 700ish MB, in Linux running Chrome it's even less.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:52 PM   #6
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What about Waterfox or Linux has a 64-Bit version of Chrome (evilgrin)?


ETA: Opera is working on a 64-Bit version (is it beta yet?), and you can always disable the Chrome updater service and manually update your browser. If you're going to use a Chrome derivative I would suggest Chromium or Dragon. Chromium build do not use the automatic updater (so you have to update manually).
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #7
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Maybe try SeaMonkey?
(Not sure how it compares in this respect, so may not make a difference.)

Also, I have Chrome installed, but i'm not seeing GoogleUpdater running on my system.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:00 PM   #8
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Maybe try SeaMonkey?
(Not sure how it compares in this respect, so may not make a difference.)

Also, I have Chrome installed, but i'm not seeing GoogleUpdater running on my system.
Are you using Chrome proper or some off-shot build that you're installing from a zip file? If you don't have the service running, AND you're running Chrome proper, then you're a freak accident. Even Dragon uses that shitty updater service and if you're using a heavy resource AV like Comodo it drags the desktop logon time out endlessly while it waits for those services to resolve.

On Windows machines I disable the GoogleUpdater (DragonUpdater, IceDragon Updater, etc) services and set the browser to check and notify, so I can grab and install the updates manually.

When I can convince a client to use Chromium, I use that instead, because it's a zip/rar file unpack and go type installation that can be replaced with a drag and drop of the new files when they're released without all that updater service shit and the pingbacks.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:17 PM   #9
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I got it from: https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/
Currently running: Version 23.0.1271.91 m

I may not be looking in the right place, but I couldn't find GoogleUpdater anywhere.
Maybe I'm just a freak. (Like that would be something new. )
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:23 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Kick Frenzy View Post
I got it from: https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/browser/
Currently running: Version 23.0.1271.91 m

I may not be looking in the right place, but I couldn't find GoogleUpdater anywhere.
Maybe I'm just a freak. (Like that would be something new. )
It would be running in the services panel where you find all of the other useless crap Windows is running behind your back, so to speak.

Even if you disable it in the options panel it won't disable the service.

You can find the services panel by typing 'services.msc' in the run dialog.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:50 PM   #11
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You can find the services panel by typing 'services.msc' in the run dialog.
A HA! Thanks!!

Two instances.
One is Manual, the other is Automatic (Delayed Start).

Guess I'm not as freakish as I thought. :P
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:03 PM   #12
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Dare I ask what you are doing with Firefox that's consuming 2GB of memory? Even with more than a dozen tabs open currently (I'm in Windows on Dragon) I'm only using 700ish MB, in Linux running Chrome it's even less.
I usually have 30 or so tabs open. Firefox has memory leaks, so does Chrome but they're not as bad. I have to restart Firefox about every day or every other day or it just builds up. With Chrome when this eventually happens, which can take up to a week, it slows down EVERYTHING, not just Chrome, so I stick with Firefox because at least it's not going to mess off other programs running.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:10 PM   #13
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I usually have 30 or so tabs open. Firefox has memory leaks, so does Chrome but they're not as bad. I have to restart Firefox about every day or every other day or it just builds up. With Chrome when this eventually happens, which can take up to a week, it slows down EVERYTHING, not just Chrome, so I stick with Firefox because at least it's not going to mess off other programs running.
I just, wow.

Well.... there are several Firefox based projects that might provide a 64-bit option for you. If you're keeping 30 tabs open in Firefox on any Windows machine for more than a few hours I'd say you're doing quite well overall. Getting once a day restarts of Firefox, while not ideal, certainly isn't anything to be fretting over.

Chrome has poor thread management and tends to use too many processes to accomplish it's task. It also has the drawback of saturating your connections cap when it's trying to load and cache large sites. If you're getting a week with 30 tabs open, again you're doing quite well in the overall scheme of things.

Why are you NOT running a Linux machine? I mean, seriously. Linux is better suited to workloads like this and doesn't have the task management issues that Windows has. Linux also has 64-bit versions of both browsers as well, and while the current iteration of the Ubuntu GUI is for shit, it's really simple to roll it back into a more Windowesque environment.

Are there Windows only applications or games you're stuck with? Ever consider running a dual-boot setup?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 PM   #14
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I just, wow.

Well.... there are several Firefox based projects that might provide a 64-bit option for you. If you're keeping 30 tabs open in Firefox on any Windows machine for more than a few hours I'd say you're doing quite well overall. Getting once a day resarts of Firefox, while not ideal, certainly isn't anything to be fretting over.

Chrome has poor thread management and tends to use too many processes to accomplish it's task. It also has the drawback of saturating your connections cap when it's trying to load and cache large sites. If you're getting a week with 30 tabs open, again you're doing quite well in the overall scheme of things.

Why are you NOT running a Linux machine? I mean, seriously. Linux is better suited to workloads like this and doesn't have the task management issues that Windows has. Linux also has 64-bit versions of both browsers as well, and while the current iteration of the Ubuntu GUI is for shit, it's really simple to roll it back into a more Windowesque environment.

Are there Windows only applications or games you're stuck with? Ever consider running a dual-boot setup?
Sorry ahead of time that this is long-winded--I'm looking over my post and going "sheesh!"........

I use Outlook (from Office 2010), with powerful rules that can be set for a number of different things, I've not seen anything on any other platform nearly as powerful.

All the video editors I've seen for Linux so far are just crap. My music-creation machine, which I don't game on, requires windows for the programs I use, sure I could use the Linux version of Renoise but then I'd not be able to use any of the dozens and dozens of VST instruments and instrument packs I've built up over the years, going linux on that machine is just out-of-the-question, it's not even an option, at all. But I'm not having problems on my music machine, so I guess that's null

Right now I still can't play my favorite Steam games on Linux. That's changing, but right now that's still the case.

I like keeping up with interfaces--right now there's nothing like Windows 7 (KDE, the new one is just rubbish with widgets you can't get rid of, and the new Gnome isn't so great either) except for Unity which forces everything on the left side of the screen and to get to your programs you have to know their names and type them into the interface--sure, you find them quickly but you have to know the name, there's no searching for programs via icons or searching them from a list.

I don't like how you have to install programs in Linux that aren't in that special list "Ubuntu Software Center" or similar thing, and a LOT of programs aren't in that list, including Second Life. In the case that an executable isn't available, which happens quite a bit with Linux software, you have to build it yourself, and if it's an old program where the libraries versions have changed their syntax for the way they're used, you're screwed as far as "making" the program, totally screwed unless you go through all the code and replace every occurrence of one syntax with another. Madness. I never have to deal with that kind of thing with Windows. Sure, "sudo apt get install" is very powerful, but I'd rather not have to memorize commands and names of things--I'm bad with names of things--good with remembering numbers, bad with names.

In windows I never have to deal with a terminal interface when things don't work quite right. With Windows if I have hardware that it doesn't auto-recognize I don't have to deal with a terminal interface, I don't have to type commands.

----

A dual-boot might be an option if I just didn't have that Outlook problem--I'd only be able to see my emails when I'm logged into Windows, or I'd have a mess of hundreds of unsorted emails to deal with if I put them in a Linux email client.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:44 PM   #15
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Sorry ahead of time that this is long-winded--I'm looking over my post and going "sheesh!"........

----

A dual-boot might be an option if I just didn't have that Outlook problem--I'd only be able to see my emails when I'm logged into Windows, or I'd have a mess of hundreds of unsorted emails to deal with if I put them in a Linux email client.
Ok. Well I could tackle most of that with a tl;dr reply, but here's the bullet points:
  • Outlook will run under WINE (See Here)
  • SecondLife has a compressed package that you just unpack and go (as do most 3rd party viewers, and some report to be faster on Linux)
  • Yes the music creation tools for Linux suck. They have decent Video/Audio software for editing, but the creation tools blow
  • YAY Steam's coming to Linux
  • Ubuntu Software Center sucks, install Synaptic (a GUI catalog version of apt-get with search tools and such) and then you can add/remove repos (repositories are software catalogs that extend the base catalog you get with the distribution, and there are thousands upon thousands of options)
  • KDE sucks ballz. Use Gnome and customize the shit out of it
  • If you're adverse to the terminal that's a tough one, I spend much of my time there so you'd have to bang that off someone who doesn't. The gnome package has some good tools for tweaking that run in the gui
Maybe run one machine for your Windows must haves and keep another one for your intensive Web Browsing stuff and Outlook running some form of *nix?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:58 PM   #16
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Thanks for the info on that. Yeah, it's just too much of a hassle. The whole Wine thing, all the things I HAVE to customize to make it an operating system I consider usable for me--one really has to enjoy doing all that stuff (uninstalling one gui and installing another, or using a terminal interface to do a totally custom install like with a Debian install) for it to be worth while. I used to enjoy that stuff, but I got burned out on it.

I'm very VERY adverse to the terminal, I think the terminal is a 70s/80s interface, something that should have died with the Commodore 64. Hate hate hate it--my #1 complaint about Linux is how much you have to rely on that outdated thing. EDIT: OK, it's not outdated, it's used regularly, I just don't like having to use it.

My complaints about what I'm dealing with in Windows are really not worth complaining about--it's why I normally don't mention it, I just thought it was disappointing that they were discontinuing the 64bit edition of Firefox, especially with how many new systems are 64bit.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:57 AM   #17
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Well, if it's bothering you then it's worth mentioning. And I don't consider your post complaining, you simply asked a valid question. With Firefox 64-bit ending, it's userbase who does need that little bit extra (no matter how few you are) will need an alternative.

Did you check out any of the Firefox branches? Waterfox? IceDragon? Anything like that? Perhaps they will have a 64-bit development cycle that endures.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Kick Frenzy View Post
A HA! Thanks!!

Two instances.
One is Manual, the other is Automatic (Delayed Start).

Guess I'm not as freakish as I thought. :P
On Windows machines I disable all GoogleUpdating (and other updating) type services and apply updates manually. This is also a good practice in a work environment, so the IT Staff can control updates and schedule when they are deployed. You never want random Windows users automatically updating ANYTHING if you can control that behavior.

Disabling that service (those services) should not prevent you from selecting the 'notify me when updates are available' option and receiving those notices.

Last edited by Lain (is Bams); 11-28-2012 at 01:23 AM. Reason: Shitty grammar
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:06 AM   #19
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I'm very VERY adverse to the terminal, I think the terminal is a 70s/80s interface, something that should have died with the Commodore 64. Hate hate hate it--my #1 complaint about Linux is how much you have to rely on that outdated thing. EDIT: OK, it's not outdated, it's used regularly, I just don't like having to use it.
This is something there's no way to address. Currently, at least for my purposes, there is no way to eject the terminal experience from my Linux environment. Doing so would severely limit my capacity to get things done, I can work much faster in Guake with multiple terminals open than I can process information in a GUI, and I personally find the stripped down experience it offers much more usable than some of the bloated interfaces being deployed.

But, what I do is a very specific thing and most people shouldn't need to enter the terminal much at all (Ubuntu has been striving to make it's experience more like the OSX experience where users don't have to be exposed to the terminal interface if they don't want to be).

Personally, I wish they would toss most of the ridiculous 'web interfaces' to devices, appliances, routers, servers, etc and just stick with the cli. Text only interfaces are faster to load, smaller footprint on your devices, and removes a useless point of access (because you're running shell services anyway, and now on top of that is a bloated, insecure web interface).
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:25 AM   #20
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This is something there's no way to address. Currently, at least for my purposes, there is no way to eject the terminal experience from my Linux environment. Doing so would severely limit my capacity to get things done, I can work much faster in Guake with multiple terminals open than I can process information in a GUI, and I personally find the stripped down experience it offers much more usable than some of the bloated interfaces being deployed.

But, what I do is a very specific thing and most people shouldn't need to enter the terminal much at all (Ubuntu has been striving to make it's experience more like the OSX experience where users don't have to be exposed to the terminal interface if they don't want to be).

Personally, I wish they would toss most of the ridiculous 'web interfaces' to devices, appliances, routers, servers, etc and just stick with the cli. Text only interfaces are faster to load, smaller footprint on your devices, and removes a useless point of access (because you're running shell services anyway, and now on top of that is a bloated, insecure web interface).
I'm the guy who forgets the lyrics to my own songs, I'm absolutely terrible with names. I need visual cues in my computer experiences. The CLI is all about memorizing names and syntax. If you can't remember the name, or the syntax for the commands and flags, you're screwed. There's no searching for the command, you MUST know the name (and then you MUST know the syntax--not all programs give you the usage instructions), and there's really nothing to help you find the name except for linux help forums and chatrooms.

I remember working with RedHat in like '01 or '02 and just trying to get my sound card working--I spent almost a month researching it, and the answer I found on a linux help forum was to edit 3 text files (each in totally different places) in a horrible text-only text editor that had strange shortcuts to do things as simple as saving (I think it was ctrl and W to save) and then type in at least 3 commands with lots of flags and syntax to make the operating system recognize the text files I had just edited. Over the next couple years I had to do that at least 2 other times as I tried newer versions of RedHat, I still never was able to memorize those command names or their syntax, I had to use the printout I made from the forum.

I remember the people on that forum making such a big deal over the fact that I didn't have to restart linux to install that device, they wanted me to tell them how wonderful that was, and I was like "yeah, this was just SO much more convenient than restarting". Somehow I doubt they got the sarcasm. I'm SO glad that sort of thing isn't nearly as required for Linux anymore. It really is a *totally* different experience than 10 years ago.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:54 AM   #21
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<stares at all the posts>

<blinks>

Uhm, what's wrong with Firefox?
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:19 PM   #22
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<stares at all the posts>

<blinks>

Uhm, what's wrong with Firefox?
It sucks and it's got only half its bits, apparently.

P2
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