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Advice on Full Perms Please
Old 05-26-2010, 04:36 PM   #1
Czari
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Question Advice on Full Perms Please

I received a request I'd never had before from another merchant - that of buying one of my items full perms.

The request was an IM simply asking (paraphrased) how much would it be to purchase one of my window blinds full perms. That was it. No introduction of who the person was, why they wanted full perms, etc.

I checked out the person's profile and saw a rez date of 2003 and that the person built prefab houses. There was also another profile pick that this person offered a freebie area.

I went to two of the locations listed for the houses and was stopped by "no permission to enter this area" and, I'm assuming, an invisible banline. Ok, on to the next profile pick advertising the prefabs. Same thing happened. Now I was confused as to if the person actually built prefabs or owned a rental community.

The last place I went to was the freebie spot. From there I found some of the prefab homes that were sold with copy/mod perms.

I've rented apartments in two communities, purchased and lived in several prefab homes and have shopped for countless others. None that I've seen come with window coverings; at most there are settings for various window tints. Even the new LL homes don't come with window coverings.

As a side note, I personally prefer to choose my own window coverings in any home I own. A prefab builder's taste may not be mine.

At any rate, I was puzzled. First by the brief - How much is it to buy your window blinds full perms? - question with no additional info, then seeing a rez date that tells me the person asking is likely very knowledgeable in their line of business and SL business in general, and then the freebie area.

Another thing is that the blinds are only 75L - mod/copy - so even those who own large rental communities could conceivably pay a tiny amount to place in all their properties. So again, I was confused with the full perm request.

Coincidentally, a few days before this request, I took a class where animations for furniture was discussed. The instructor stressed the importance of gaining permission from the creator/s before using them in items for sale. She then mentioned two animation designers who sell full perm versions of their animations. Someone said they knew the animation designer/s mentioned but purchasing even a few of the full perm animations was very expensive. The instructor agreed and said for that reason, there was a full packet of the animations available with full perms with a "lifetime license" that sold for $400 USD!!! I realize my simple little blinds are not on the same par with animations but it was interesting to have just heard that discussion then have my first request for full perms on one of my items.

I wrote a polite reply saying (what I'm sure the person who requested already knew) that except for textures, scripts and animations, very few things in SL were sold full perms due to the possibility of an item ending up as an unintended freebie and also saying I was not implying that was the person's intention. I thanked the person for the interest in my products and was sorry I could not accommodate the request.

I received another short IM from this person saying they were a beta tester of SL, built houses and wasn't going to give the blinds away but use them in every one of their homes. The person said go to xyz sim to see for myself (which I'd already tried to do, couldn't enter two of the sims and only saw one or two homes offered on the third). The person said to let them know if I changed my mind.

Ok, I'm stumped. I can understand why the builder would need full perms of an item to include with prefabs for sale, but again, this is the first prefab merchant I've seen who includes window treatments in their homes except for a few I've seen that were theme-based and also built by the same person who built the prefab. Full perm items generally seem to be frowned upon due to the possibility I mentioned above. I'm really not overly concerned with the price issue since my items are really low priced, but I was a bit surprised with the lack of professionalism in the initial request, ie. not introducing him/herself and saying why they would like to purchase full perms. Another thought came to mind, if they can build something as complex (to me) as a prefab, they couldn't just make the window treatments as well?

What would you merchants have done receiving the request as I did? This is "new territory" for me. Thank you in advance.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:16 PM   #2
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I wish I had an answer for you that made sense- maybe they don't want to make them because the textures you use are either original to you or they dont want to invest in textures?

And yes that is just rude way to approach you- I wil tell you this though, If you are not comofortable with it then dont do it. When i first started in the eyelas business one supposedly biggest eyelash merchant in SL tried to get me to sell thru them - i am glad today i said no.
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Old 05-26-2010, 05:29 PM   #3
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For the last few months I've been buying full-perm animations for use with furniture that Humps is building. It's standard practice for furniture makers, at least, to look to a third-party for a necessary item that is well outside their normal skill set. Most (but not all) of the animators require group membership and at least some guarantee that you're a legitimate content creator. The prices for full-perm are significantly higher, but not astronomical.

On the other hand, some animators that had anims I loved didn't offer full-perms. That's okay too. Although I was disappointed, I could understand why they were wary of putting them up for sale.

For specific projects (mostly for my own fun), I've bought full-perm sculpties to create shirt collars or shapes that I need. Again, the full-perm price is higher than copy/mod, but still well within reach of my SL pocketbook.

So it all comes down to what you want as a business model. Is it worth it to you to sell full-perm to an established content creator market that could use your materials to enhance their final product. If this is a one-off request, one that you're not likely to get often, the sale may not be worth your trouble. But if you open up a new market, beyond that of end users, the income stream may offset the risk of getting ripped off.
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Old 05-26-2010, 08:39 PM   #4
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Thanks, Amar and Beebo.

I totally understand items like textures, animations and scripts being items that take skill sets not all builders have and those designers offering them for higher prices, generally with licenses with specific terms for use privileges in items that are sold.

I agree with you, Amar. Since this person has been in SL since "Beta testing" as they informed me, then I would have thought the person would have picked up some professional/business skills on how to approach another creator instead of "How much do you charge for full perms on your xyz item" with no further info, not even a hello. Couple that with the fact I couldn't even get on the sim to see the builds PLUS having in the person's profile h/she offers freebies or has a freebie market (it was something more than just the type of freebies or dollarbies many of us use as advertising), then when I did get into one of the several sims, the type of builds I saw were inconsistent in theme with the style of product asked for...I just had an odd feeling like you said.

I was thinking more on it today and did I miss an opportunity to have more exposure to that product. However, when I have purchased prefabs, I don't go around checking the creator on anything in it; I just assume it was all done by the prefab builder. So ad exposure wouldn't have come into play. This person may be an established builder, but certainly not one I've ever heard of or seen advertisements of the products, etc.

As for the item in question, I sell on average 5 or more a week with (currently) no advertising, so taking a chance on someone I don't know, who exhibited questionable professional skills and advertises a freebie store...even if they're just small, low cost items, I'd rather sell directly to the end user.

Any of the above factors being different, I might make a different decision. I did want to just run it by those of you more experienced with this than I.

Now when I start offering textures for sale...that will be a whole other ballgame.
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Old 05-27-2010, 10:46 AM   #5
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If it was me, depending on how much work it was to make those blinds, I'd either ask for a silly high price (let's see, you're selling them for 75L$ apiece - how about 7500 for full-perms?) or just flat-out refuse.
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Old 05-27-2010, 11:20 AM   #6
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Yeah, given the impoliteness of the query, I would tend to assume the person is either a scammer or an idiot, and ignore them. If they asked politely, then I'd ask for some enormous fee.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:33 PM   #7
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It's certainly a terse message but I wouldn't consider it rude. I'd either say, "I don't sell full perm items," or make up an appropriate price if I wanted to sell that way.

The no-entry thing is odd, though.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:11 PM   #8
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Thanks, jackalennui and Dale. The idea of asking for some outrageous price actually crossed my mind. Then I felt badly for thinking that, but now it sounds like a good idea again.

If this ever happens in the future I think that's what I'll do.
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Old 05-27-2010, 04:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osprey Therian View Post
It's certainly a terse message but I wouldn't consider it rude. I'd either say, "I don't sell full perm items," or make up an appropriate price if I wanted to sell that way.

The no-entry thing is odd, though.
Hi, Osprey It wasn't just the terseness of the IM it was also not providing any information at all such as "I build houses and would like to purchase your blinds," but at this point, meh.

I may have figured out the no-entry thing. I took my new advertising alt over to the sims and I forgot all about getting the avi age verified. The sims were not adult rated, but I've heard of some sim owners requiring the age verification for whatever reason. I just age verified that alt and plan to go over again.
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Old 05-27-2010, 05:53 PM   #10
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I'd be highly suspicious of him wanting to resell your stuff.

And I'd point out to him, "oh, I'd simply love to, but I seem to be BANNED FROM THERE."

Seriously, someone who's throwing their beta status in your face should be able to make their own damn blinds.
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Old 05-27-2010, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezle Warburton View Post
I'd be highly suspicious of him wanting to resell your stuff.

And I'd point out to him, "oh, I'd simply love to, but I seem to be BANNED FROM THERE."

Seriously, someone who's throwing their beta status in your face should be able to make their own damn blinds.
I like your style

And re: the beta status plus building houses, that's what I thought too. I looked at the houses last night on Xstreet and they sell for like 8,000L!!! and are truly nothing that special that I haven't seen other places for waaaay less. They are either ultra modern with lots of open glass or "Asian Bungalows" (I wouldn't call an 8,000L price tag a "bungalow) that aren't as nice as one my friend had that he purchased from ... gah, now I can't think of the designer, but he had several sims worth of gorgeous Japanese houses and was a well-known builder, that was about five times as large.

I think I needed a good laugh last week, and maybe that was it.
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:04 PM   #12
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Re: Advice on Full Perms Please
Old 05-27-2010, 07:30 PM   #13
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Beta?

Eggy?

I'm using tapatalk. I haz a moto Droid, bitchez
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Old 05-27-2010, 07:37 PM   #14
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Beta?

Eggy?

I'm using tapatalk. I haz a moto Droid, bitchez
Come on dude...

If Eggy had IMed her he'd have made sexually inappropriate comments, not asked to buy her blinds.
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Old 05-27-2010, 08:44 PM   #15
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Maybe blinds is what they're calling it now...you know...like "pulling down the blinds."

Whoever Eggy is...that wasn't the person. This is getting fun, though.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:16 PM   #16
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Whoever Eggy is...
ZOMG
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Czari View Post
Hi, Osprey It wasn't just the terseness of the IM it was also not providing any information at all such as "I build houses and would like to purchase your blinds," but at this point, meh.

I may have figured out the no-entry thing. I took my new advertising alt over to the sims and I forgot all about getting the avi age verified. The sims were not adult rated, but I've heard of some sim owners requiring the age verification for whatever reason. I just age verified that alt and plan to go over again.
I understand, but we can just take things at face value and this message sort of indicates there's no reason to change course or input energy to please the sender.
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Old 06-01-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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Selling something full perms is begging for it to be ripped offf and then getting 15 million IMs because it's some some fucktard's BIAB. Ask for a large amount of money and see if he says yes.
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
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ZOMG
Errrmmm...have I missed a "notable" of SL not knowing who Eggy is?
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Re: Advice on Full Perms Please
Old 06-01-2010, 03:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Quote:
ZOMG
Errrmmm...have I missed a "notable" of SL not knowing who Eggy is?
FiC.
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Old 06-05-2010, 05:35 PM   #21
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This is unbelievable!!!! Re: my thread on modding products, when I sent the modded product requested to one of the customers I sent a note saying I was not charging for the mod, but if he would please add my shop to his picks I would really appreciate it. He IM'd back saying the mod was PERFECT, thanked me again, and said he was headed to my store to add it to his picks.

About a half hour later I received another IM from him saying he's been looking forever for drapes and blinds for the houses he builds (what is it with people who build houses who can't mod or build what I consider simple things?!?) and could we negotiate a price for full perms on them. Maybe it's the alt of the first person who requested the full perms who builds houses...lol.

I was trying to think of what ridiculously high price I could ask....hmmmm....maybe lindens equaling a month's rent for my RL apt. I think I'm just going to thank him for his interest and politely say I don't sell full perm items.

Now I KNOW there are a LOT of people who make curtains/blinds in SL, many with many more functions than mine, so maybe no one else is willing to sell full perms either.

I just had to report back on this. I can't believe that "lightning struck twice."

Last edited by Czari; 06-06-2010 at 12:30 PM. Reason: Removed "forever" How'd that get there?? Now I remember...replaced "forever"
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:21 PM   #22
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What he's really asking for is to hire a graphic artist for some custom work. I would ask for payment up front for the going rate of a graphic designer in your area. Charge him actual time and refund what you don't use.

It's a real slippery slope dealing with custom builds in SL. I've watched others treated really shitty once the product is delivered. The customer will either not pay or want endless changes or additional work at no charge.
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Old 06-05-2010, 09:49 PM   #23
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Quote:
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Errrmmm...have I missed a "notable" of SL not knowing who Eggy is?
Eggy's has the same rezday as Second Life itself (or close).
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:32 PM   #24
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Eggy's has the same rezday as Second Life itself (or close).
Thanks, Forest I didn't want to look stupid and ask again....lol.


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Old 06-06-2010, 12:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
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What he's really asking for is to hire a graphic artist for some custom work. I would ask for payment up front for the going rate of a graphic designer in your area. Charge him actual time and refund what you don't use.
From what he said he wanted to make a deal for full perms on the blinds I have for sale. But, especially not having had any experience in this area, you may be right in that it could escalate into custom work - which I definitely don't do. The modding was time-consuming enough.

I still think getting all these requests in one week when I haven't had any inquiries in two years is odd. Is this when I say something corny like "When it rains it pours?"
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Old 06-07-2010, 04:01 AM   #26
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My advice is.....


DONT DO IT


















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