Why Open Sim?
Old 05-16-2010, 03:15 PM   #1
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I have been looking around and the place looks great but one question that pricks my brain.

I will post this here but it's general question aimed at all of the Second Life clones.

Why open sim? Do you feel that you are inheriting the limitations and problems already associated with Second Life? How will you over come this and make your world better than Second Life?
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:49 AM   #2
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If you want to put up a Virtual World, it's sort of the leading contender, isn't it?

What are the other alternatives?
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:52 AM   #3
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What I don't understand is why people bitch about all the stuff that's broken in SL ... but it doesn't seem to be an issue for them in an OpenSim grid. I love having an opensim on my computer for sandboxing, just having fun but between breadth of content and actual functioning stuff SL is still king.
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Old 05-17-2010, 04:25 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxie View Post
How will you over come this and make your world better than Second Life?
simple answer there:

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Old 05-17-2010, 04:53 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxie View Post
I have been looking around and the place looks great but one question that pricks my brain.

I will post this here but it's general question aimed at all of the Second Life clones.

Why open sim? Do you feel that you are inheriting the limitations and problems already associated with Second Life? How will you over come this and make your world better than Second Life?
Well I cannot answer on behalf of the founders, but my opinion:

There simply is no alternative that can, at this moment, offer the same possibities as Open Sim can. We can bitch whatever we want about SL and LL, but fact is that they created a platform that still does not meet its equal. The main thing to bith about, is the way they manage that platform :-)

And that brings me to the big plus of Inworldz: the way it is managed so far. Of course, this gives no guarantee for the future, provided they grow to a size that SL is now, but at this moment it is pretty amazing.

Whoever lands at the default landing spot, immediately meets one or more mentors, or one of the founders. Everything is explained, they get escorted to the freebie area where they can de-ruth. It really makes you feel welcome.

Another big advantage of course is the pricing. For US$ 75 you get a full sim, with 35000 prims. Yes, 35000! Split it up with a friend for example (like I did) and you pay 37.50 for 17.500 prims... where in SL a private sim costs 295. Oh and did I mention you pay no setup fees?

Really, it is worth a try :-)
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Old 05-17-2010, 05:43 AM   #6
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Plus it's the spirit of the thing- If you have lived in SL for a number of years, you have experienced some of this quirkiness. If you have been there for a LOT of years, you actually went thru it! I didn't live there at the beginning so I can only imagine- but the feeling of being here (IW) for what we hope is another grand new world, is very exciting! I think I am realistic enough to know eventually the Founders are going to have to go at least somewhat corporate- how else wd they deal with things on a huge scale? LL has had seven years head start- I don't now what will happen tomorrow but I do believe IW has more than a fighting chance.
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Old 05-17-2010, 06:37 AM   #7
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I think those that chose to migrate to an OS, be it IW or another, they are doing it not because of the issues SL grid itself has, the viewers have or the general quirkyness that everyone experiences on occasion there....but because of the company in general. I was one of those people that took the 'rule changes to be changed after uproar to be changed again later, etc ad nauseum" with a shrug of the shoulder. It's become to much for me, so I needed to find an alternative.

What I looked for wasn't an equal to SL...it was a community spirit, some money options (I create AND I love to shop) and stability to some degree. I found that in IW, and the criteria I listed was placed in order...community spirit being number one.

Could I find community spirit in SL after being there for almost four years? I suppose. But it takes *alot* of effort because 'cliques' are already established. As a 'newcomer' the group...and having a 'clique' of my own (and clique is not meant in a negative way) it's hard to trust and be trusted in SL. In IW (and possibly other OS grids)....people are more trusting, more open and more willing to help their fellow grid mate along the way. I have learned more in IW the past month and a half, thanks to the help of others then I have in SL in almost four years. That says something about their community spirit and it says something about the founders.

As it was mentioned early....eventually they may have to go corporate, there may come a time we won't see them hanging around the welcome center....although I want IW to succeed...I hope it doesn't get so big that the founders need alts to enjoy the world of which they created. But for now, they are there. They are hands on, they are helpful and they have set the standard for others to be helpful as well. That's a huge draw for me.

It's rare to hear me complain about grid related issues....we play, live and learn in a program run by humans. Whether it's an OS grid or SL. There are glitches and although annoying at times...it's part of the experience. What you will see me complain about is how the COMPANY runs the grid and generally if it gets to the point of 'complaining' alot, I take action. Once I've had enough...I've had enough. Makes no sense to complain then do absolutely nothing about the issues that are bothering you. Hence...finding my way to IW.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcel Flatley View Post
There simply is no alternative that can, at this moment, offer the same possibities as Open Sim can. We can bitch whatever we want about SL and LL, but fact is that they created a platform that still does not meet its equal. The main thing to bith about, is the way they manage that platform :-)
I'm even more of an Open Sim fan now that I've seen Blue Mars. Don't get me wrong -- it think it's wonderful that there is a Blue Mars, and that it does have an entirely different paradigm; we need variation and alternatives. It's just not likley to be a platform that suits me and what I look for in a VW.

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And that brings me to the big plus of Inworldz: the way it is managed so far. Of course, this gives no guarantee for the future, provided they grow to a size that SL is now, but at this moment it is pretty amazing.
The issue of scaling is where my wariness steps in. It's much easier to manage a small world, but once it begins gathering in popularity and growing exponentially, any company can end up with many of the same problems LL grapples with, plus a whole batch of new ones. Ignoring the role that scale played in LL's fall from grace is to simply go through a whole new cycle of disillusionment.

I think providing a smaller grid, where personal management is feasible, would make a great alternative to SL, but most companies have the perfectly valid goal of wanting to grow larger and make more money. So catch the small community cycle now, enjoy it, but don't develop the unrealistic expectation that InWorldz won't change or that it will handle change flawlessly.

I'm curious enough to visit new VWs, reserve my name, keep current on their news, but my stake in SL is pretty deep and I don't have a whole lot to bitch about. I've built a strong lesbian community focus in SL, and without a very large population of residents to draw from, I would be unlikely to forge that on another platform. So for as long as SL exists, I'm pretty much just a tourist elsewhere.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:02 AM   #9
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And of course that is part of what the new world offer- a choice and the chance to be a tourist- but don't miss your chance too, to establish and offer new communities- the things you founded and found in SL maybe just as needed - if not now, later- in IW and others. You say you have made great connectins in the lesbian community in SL - well glad then that u r in IW- there may be folks there looking for like minded individuals even now- and not just for sexual orientation.

Lexie mentioned last night she found a steampunk enclave- bet there are quiet a few steam folks that may be looking to find a new stake somewhere- and furs, and Victorians and, and, and- so much social strata we have become accustomed to in SL and so many people looking for an outlet- a new world and a new place to grow -
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:43 AM   #10
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I would be in favor of people mass-transferring SL content into third party worlds for the sake of scaring SL into working on things. Furthermore, I think VW's need to go into the open to really survive beyond an amusing curiosity.

However, I'm not crazy about sending my credit card info to some guy who I don't know and I don't know if the servers won't be disconnected. There were 15 different open sauce worlds in 08 and some of them harbored copybotted material and others harbored pedophiles. Not all virtual worlds are like that, and LL isn't much better, but at lease they're a legally established company and not some fly-by-night operation.

TL;DR--- It needs more gurantees and safety before people invest in it.
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Old 05-17-2010, 10:57 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Not all virtual worlds are like that, and LL isn't much better, but at lease they're a legally established company and not some fly-by-night operation.

TL;DR--- It needs more gurantees and safety before people invest in it.
InWorldz is a legally registered LLC.

We don't ask for your credit card number. Our transactions are handled through Paypal.

We have already removed several items which were DMCA'd by their copyright holders.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:00 AM   #12
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Not really sure what happened in 08' with OS's but I have heard some rumblings about it.

I think anyone who is looking for something other then SL needs to take into consideration their own risk factor and what they are seeking to find. No VW is going to be squeeky clean at all times. Not Sl, not IW, not BM's, not Reaction or 3rd Rock or any other entity that you or I might play during our down time.

Any of these worlds may and most likely will find themselves with similar issues across the board at one time or another. It's the nature of the beast when your dealing with humans and really...that is what we're dealing with no matter what 'game' your playing that involves interaction between 'players'.

One of the things that nobody questions but we have seen it happen in other VW's (Sims Online to name just one...wasn't there another that recently closed down?) is that any 'game' that is played can be shut down at any time or hacked into by anyone, including an employee that could cause RL banking issues. That includes SL....(right after I started in 06, they had a major hack and had to change everyone's passwords if I remember right that was hit with it).

I think my questions would be the following:

1. What makes you 'trust' one 'gaming source' more then another? Length they have been in business, track records, user referrals, etc....

2. Do you expect more, less or equal out of new grids then what your currently experiencing with the grid your in? (ie; more of out of another OS versus what you experience daily in SL)

3. What helped you decided to put money into SL in the beginning? Was it the company? that others did it and the company seemed safe, their number of years as a company when you started in game, etc?

(game is just a word I use to lump things together, figured I would clarify that)

These are just things I'm curious about the answers since usually during comparisons it's much like Charlemagne states. It's fear/concern/issues about 'other' grids without much thought of fears/concerns/issues with the grid we are already in. Sometimes it's past issues (like in her case, once bitten twice shy type of thing--understandable)....sometimes it's other things.

So I figured, while we are discussing OS grids and why someone *would* trust them....I would ask why someone *would* trust or *did* trust SL when they first started there, etc.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:13 AM   #13
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1. SL has been around for quite a while in terms of tech firms.
2. I expect a reasonably comparable experience, with allowance for downtime.
3. I don't use a credit card for buying Lindens. There's a way to use prepaid cash cards to add money to one's account. It also prevents being overbilled.
4. SL came out when no one knew about virtual worlds. No one had a clue it could be profitable. Now, it's still a bit of a hot trend. Hot trends attract scammers.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:17 AM   #14
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To answer the question of why Opensim.

Familiarity, and Availability.

For me, even though Second Life wasn't perfect, it was a great introduction to the Virtual World environment.

I don't need highly realistic avatars. Just some decent looking skins, and excellent clothing, which is all happening in InWorldz.

Most probably because I started in SL, I am comfortable with that world. Opensimulator gives the appearance of being in that world, though as everyone knows, it's not stable yet. Opensim itself is going on 4 years old now. (From memory, very likely not correct!) and is still in Alpha.

Is it our intention to be the same as SL? No.

We have no intention of being the next Second Life. We want more. We want a strong community. We want creative people. We want a partnership with our residents that allows us all to achieve everything we want. One of our first goals in this is to be as stable as SL. Large words, but it is possible.

When I say partnership, I mean that. We want community involvement. We know there are bugs now, and we are working on them. We ask that these bugs be added to our Mantis. We are also looking for help with things like Mentors/Greeters. People that understand the issues and can explain them to others. We have a wiki which could use a lot of TLC as far as scripting issues, etc. Our forums are there for everyone to get help, socialize outside the world, etc.

Will we be what everyone wants? Probably not.

But we do offer the availability of ourselves to discuss what it is you do want. Will this change, I hope not. Our greatest asset in building the perfect world are the opinions and help of the people we began InWorldz for.

So, I say, Opensim was a good start. It's taken a very talented developers to move us past the Alpha phase. But we still have a ways to go to get to that point where we say.. We're as stable as SL now. Lets add the features everyone actually wants. But.. I am confident that point will come.
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Old 05-17-2010, 11:17 AM   #15
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I didn't put too much thougt it into it really- i was there, i was hooked- i can be impetuous and happily so- so i bought my first 512 thinking and thinking and finally hitting the button - eventually my expenes grew and i have not regreted a minute of it. I am not leaving SL- I love my SL- i get pissed off at LL at times- but it is not why i am loving IW - it is just fresh and new and different and i don't think i need to stop loving one to love another (if you know me, you wd see a pattern here ) so, putting my money where my mouth is- Marcel and I jointly bought in and I just kicked some US bux over also for some inworldz currency. I want this place to survive and flourish- I have met Legion and Elenia inworld- sure i can be fooled as readily as the next guy but these folks strike me as real and wanting the best for this- i think they are looking at IW as their project, 'theirs' as in they re emotionally invested in it- not just trying to make a buck- yeah I could be wrong- but I think I got them read right - so for what it's worth I am in -
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Old 05-17-2010, 12:47 PM   #16
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I'm going to answer my own questions:


1. I actually don't 'trust' one source over another. When I first started SL, it was Sept 06 and things had just opened up to free accounts (for those that started after that..let me just say...it wasn't a pleasant experience for the most part). They had 'only' been in business 2.5 years I think--give or take--so really a track record wasn't there yet. I knew one other person through blogging and they spoke of it, so I tried it. I bought my premium by October of that year because they were getting ready to drop stipends. 400L sounded ALOT better then 300L and I wanted land. So really, it was just 'gut' knowing that at any time, with any company...what I put in could be lost. It was fun, I willing to pay and have over all enjoyed myself until recently.


2. At first I thought this would be a hard question. Stability wise, I don't expect one grid to better then another grid. We all know SL has had problems with their stability, OS has issues with theirs and so on and so forth. I don't expect one to be cleaner then the other because they will all have issues crop up ect.

What I do expect out of any company I invest or play in for a long period of time is good business sense. That's pretty much all I expect and think, as a consumer, is extremely important. Rules change, prices change, means of delivery change, etc. However, I expect them to be implemented for the customers best interest which is, in return, the companies best interest. Even if it's a rule I don't necessarily like (zindra is a good example) I can live with it...if it's done properly and with respect to me as a paying customer.

3. When I first started in IW, a friend asked me if I would be willing to trust them enough to pay an entire years tier on two mainland regions (which is what I own). I told her no. I don't trust *any* company....real life or virtual....to put *that* much money out up front. With SL, it wasn't the company...they were still relatively 'young' in comparison to their age now. They did have decent business practices in the short month I had played it (!) prior to going premium. I didn't really know anyone to get a referral...so again, I went with gut instinct and fun factor.

With IW, the company (ie the founders) actually had a lot to do with why I decided to invest. They were one of the first few people I met. They were approachable, they answered questions like it was the first time they were ever asked it. Their mentors were helpful and the over all 'feel' was there for me.
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Old 05-17-2010, 01:29 PM   #17
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I want to thank every one for the great answers.

It has given me some insight in to issues of virtual worlds I had failed to notice.

I am intrigued by the idea of who will be the next Second Life and how they will do it.
Anyone has spent any time working with computers knows it's only a matter of time before some one figures out how to do it better, faster and cheaper.

With the advent of places like InWorldz it will be interesting who does it.
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Old 05-17-2010, 02:03 PM   #18
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I saw this website and thought it might work for this thread. Or not. It is a list of Open Sim grids with approximate users # and unique last 30days. Very few have 1000 unique users last 30 days. OSGrid is the largest in terms of region (6000) and users (36000 total/4600 unique last 30 days). Avatar Hangout (with OM˘) is second (390 regions, 5502 total/3122 unique). Though I do not see Inworldz on the list.

oh, right, the website.
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Old 05-18-2010, 02:28 PM   #19
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You will find that the founders at inworldz do not dislike the SL idea of how a virtual world interface should function. I have personally always found SL to be easily accessible, and relatively easy for people to learn how to create and share their dreams.

That's really the key isn't it? Being able to walk around a virtual world and see all the wonderful ideas people have come up with. People pushing beyond reality and letting their imaginations run wild. People making friends and finding an escape from the every day where the world isn't quite as simple as it could be.

It's about pushing your own limits, and maybe through your creations learning a little bit more about yourself. A virtual world should not be a competition that favors the professional over the amateur, it should be a place to be yourself.

InWorldz is about trying to build a virtual society, and I think that OpenSimulator and the Second Life paradigm were a great start. Are there problems with OpenSim? Absolutely, but we have to remember that the core of what the OpenSim crew has written was reverse engineered through what I'm sure were many sleepless nights. Virtual world platforms are not easy problems to solve.

Will we expand upon these ideas and drift from SL paradigm as time goes on? You bet. Though feedback with our community and harnessing the excitement of our residents we will change. But this change will remain as democratic as we can keep it. Our primary goals are not fueled by a desire for wealth, it goes much deeper than that.
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Old 05-23-2010, 03:36 PM   #20
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Today, Second Life is where America OnLine was in 1993 or so. It had everything -- instant messaging, forums, social groups, news, commerce, email.

The World Wide Web, however, for the most part, had none of these. There were a bunch of websites up, mostly academic, some hobby sites. No individual site came even CLOSE to what AOL had to offer. And the functionality sucked in comparison. AOL had everything built right into the browser, all in one convenient place. On the Web, you go to Gmail for your mail, to Facebook for your friends, to Blogger for you blog, to CNN for your news.

For users, the Web just isn't as good as AOL. And, for content providers, the Web offers no protections at all. You can copy-and-paste anything from any page anywhere. If you were around in 1992 or 1993 you probably would not bet on the Web, but on AOL or one of its many, many clones.

So why did the Web take off anyway?

First, you own your own content. You're not just a page on the AOL site. When you have your own site, its yours. You do with whatever you want, invite whoever your want, use whatever user names you want, and have whatever age restrictions you want -- or no age restrictions. This is the major reason why OpenSim is taking off for educational users.

I've talked to three groups recently with deployments in the 100,000-user-plus range in OpenSim and will be writing about them soon. So far, these are mostly pilot projects, but as they gain traction, we'll be seeing a lot of behind-the-firewall deployments by schools and businesses looking for internal learning and collaboration platforms.

Beyond control, you've got interoperability. Today, I'm tracking 50 grids that are hyperlinked -- you can teleport from one grid to another, with your existing avatar and clothes, and inventory. There are thousands of grids out there that are hypergrid-enabled but running in quiet mode -- their owners teleport in an out (to go to meetings, or to go shopping on other grids and bring stuff back home) -- but they're not publicizing their addresses.

The number of destinations on the hypergrid is growing fast. We've got a couple of hundred destinations in our queue that we haven't added to the directory yet -- we visit each one, make sure that the hypergrid teleports work, take pictures, write a description, and categorize them. Lots of manual work! But worth it, we think. :-)

Here is a recent article about OpenSim growth rates, with all the latest statistics about the big public grids and how many regions users they have:

OpenSim grid growth moving to private grids: http://bit.ly/aSIYGN
Hyperica hypergrid destination directory: http://www.hyperica.com

Finally, a quick note about content protection: OpenSim currently offers the same content protection features as Second Life -- and the same security holes for hackers to slip through. Yes, its also possible to set up your own grid and to steal the content on that grid. But if you've got the technical skills to do this, there are much faster and easier ways to steal content.

This is already much more security than is available on websites. In addition, content providers have the same tools that they have on the Web -- they can send a take-down request to the grid managers (most will comply very quickly -- last thing new grids need is an expensive lawsuit). Or they can contact the Internet service provider. For content distributed through servers in China and Russia, this will pose problems -- as it does for music and video content owners today on the Web. But those countries, too, are beginning to crack down on piracy. Slowly, yes, but it's coming.

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Old 05-23-2010, 05:01 PM   #21
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I really had no idea what an Open Sim was (and honestly still don't as in SL vs OS - the difference?). The only thing I'd ever really heard of them was that LL made some screw-up with Open Sims.

Then along came Amar whom I'd met on the now archived SL forums who said there was a new virtual world that was really cool (or words to that effect) with no upload charges for textures, tons of prims, etc. So, being the nos....errrr curious person I am, I went to check it out.

Many people have already posted why I am enjoying IW so much: being in on the ground floor of a new venture, being a "pioneer" - learning to not depend on items I thought I couldn't live without in SL, the personal encouragement to learn new skills due to the pioneering spirit, the greeters are AWESOME...but the top reason is the community spirit Misty mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Misty Harley View Post
Could I find community spirit in SL after being there for almost four years? I suppose. But it takes *alot* of effort because 'cliques' are already established. As a 'newcomer' the group...and having a 'clique' of my own (and clique is not meant in a negative way) it's hard to trust and be trusted in SL. In IW (and possibly other OS grids)....people are more trusting, more open and more willing to help their fellow grid mate along the way.
If I encounter a clique (in the bad sense of not welcoming new people), I run the other direction...fast! I have been wanting to become involved in some type of community in SL, but which one/s? I've spent time in several, but with people who have already been together for years, it really is hard to get noticed. Some who know me may disagree with this...but I am not the "pushy type" in those type of situations, so I will just not return.

At present, all of IW is one community. I realize in time there will be various groups forming around interests, but getting to know people now will make it much easier to join an interest group later. Like last night, when I just want to breathe and relax, I head to IW.

As Amar said, I still love SL and don't see myself leaving anytime soon. However the ratio of time spent in SL to IW may change over time.

And how many times do we in SL have the opportunity to sit down and talk one-on-one with Klingdon (that always makes me think of Klingons for some reason...lol) in SL. Again, as IW grows, this may not be possible logistically in the future, but sitting down and chatting with Elenia is wonderful.

On a personal note, but it relates to all of the above - I mentioned something last night at the Coffee House that then turned into a story. (Being of Celtic heritage, I come from a long line of people who love to tell stories.) I can't tell you how very much the comments and hugs meant from those there.

Why Open Sims? I haven't a clue about other ones but re: IW - for me - the people.
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