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The pot measure
Old 11-03-2010, 09:01 AM   #1
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Default The pot measure

Well I hate to say it but I'm kind of glad the pot measure didn't pass. I mean I'm all for legalized pot -- legalized pot is a very good thing and I would really like to see it in my lifetime or even tomorrow BUT....

it creates a really bad problem for obama which is why he said the feds would still prosecute even if it passed. it was the same problem for bush and i was really mad at obama for doing the same thing but now I understand it better.

if states can do this -- supercede federal law for pot, then they can do it for other things -- like allowing school prayer, and ... i dunno other stuff i don't like as much as i do pot that the federal govt doesn't allow and that some states want. its pretty much chaos.

so anyway while i hate that this is so, i am kind of glad. the real test would be if obama gets a second term and then can make pot legal at a federal level but he has too big a stick up his ass to ever do that.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #2
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I get what your saying but I'd prefer baby steps like this to no steps at all.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:32 AM   #3
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Well, there's got to be something the states are in control of. The entire country cannot be controlled by Washington DC. Marijuana is still classified as a controlled substance. That means its controlled on the federal level because states have no jurisdiction beyond their borders.

Now, there's a whole can of worms that can be opened about what should be a state law and what should be a federal law. But we cannot have all the power in the hands of the states nor can we have all the power at the national level. In this particular case, I think the power to control psychoactive drugs should be a national responsibility.

Now, if weed got reclassified to the level of drug that alcohol and nicotine currently is, then the states might have more control. For now, we have to change this at the national level.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:22 AM   #4
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somehow this seems relevent..not really sure how but in some deep way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_Crisis

i guess just teh talk of states rights vs federal rights

and what it can lead to

and we think we have a divided gov't now days
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:17 AM   #5
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Well, there's got to be something the states are in control of. The entire country cannot be controlled by Washington DC. Marijuana is still classified as a controlled substance. That means its controlled on the federal level because states have no jurisdiction beyond their borders.

Now, there's a whole can of worms that can be opened about what should be a state law and what should be a federal law. But we cannot have all the power in the hands of the states nor can we have all the power at the national level. In this particular case, I think the power to control psychoactive drugs should be a national responsibility.

Now, if weed got reclassified to the level of drug that alcohol and nicotine currently is, then the states might have more control. For now, we have to change this at the national level.
Well yes but states rights vs federal rights and what should be decided at each is an entirely different argument. I will say, however, that if the states want fda assistance fighting the tide of other, more dangerous, illegal drugs, then they have to accept federal enforcement. You don't get to pass things off to the feds only when its convenient and you like it.

There are many things states are in control of. But with all things, once they accept federal money for a thing, there are federal controls around what they do with that money.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:31 AM   #6
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Well I hate to say it but I'm kind of glad the pot measure didn't pass. I mean I'm all for legalized pot -- legalized pot is a very good thing and I would really like to see it in my lifetime or even tomorrow BUT....

it creates a really bad problem for obama which is why he said the feds would still prosecute even if it passed. it was the same problem for bush and i was really mad at obama for doing the same thing but now I understand it better.

if states can do this -- supercede federal law for pot, then they can do it for other things -- like allowing school prayer, and ... i dunno other stuff i don't like as much as i do pot that the federal govt doesn't allow and that some states want. its pretty much chaos.

so anyway while i hate that this is so, i am kind of glad. the real test would be if obama gets a second term and then can make pot legal at a federal level but he has too big a stick up his ass to ever do that.
I disagree with just about everything you've said here. Until the states begin to adopt these types of laws en'masse, the Feds will do little to change things. There's too much money being funneled into DEA programs and the prison system rakes in too much cash jailing pot offenders.

At some point the states have to begin to take back control of their own communities, and this is something that has no business being regulated on a federal level .IF a local community wants to allow it, they should.

Let the religious asswipes and the anti-pot fuckwits make their own laws and go live in a state that supports their bullshit.

Stay the fuck out of my personal life, it's not harming anyone. Let's try to get back to the principles the country was founded on.

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Old 11-03-2010, 11:37 AM   #7
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I disagree with just about everything you've said here. Until the states begin to adopt these types of laws en'masse, the Feds will do little to change things. There's too much money being funneled into DEA programs and the prison system rakes in too much cash jailing pot offenders.

At some point the states have to begin to take back control of their own communities, and this is something that has no business being regulated on a federal level .IF a local community wants to allow it, they should.

Let the religious asswipes and the anti-pot fuckwits make their own laws and go live in a state that supports their bullshit.

Stay the fuck out of my personal life, it's not harming anyone. Let's try to get back to the principles the country was founded on.

Well the States have to stop taking federal money if they want control. Also, having them do this one little thing would lead to people like Family Focus deciding to have campaigns where the state can sponsor religion. I see that as a larger evil.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:45 AM   #8
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Not addressing the "slippery slope", but as far as pot is concerned, the feds can never legalize it without re-negotiating treaties with outher countries, which isn't going to happen. I can't find reference to the exact treaties, but we have agreed to never legalize pot (and other drugs), and since a treaty rises to the level of "law of the land" like the Constitution, that's that.

And then, with the supremacy of the federal constitution over state law, any state could "legalize" it and it would remain illegal under the federal law. The only question then is whether the feds will enforce it.

So all 50 states could legalize it and if the feds ignore it - fine. But then they decide it's a "menace" and start raiding again, and we're back to square one. The Federal Attorney General could also start challenging the state laws and would likely have them overturned.

Without the ability for the feds to legalize, every other attempt is futile.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:07 PM   #9
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The whole thing is disgusting to me that a group of narrow minded assholes can force their free will upon the rest of us. This country makes me sick.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:09 PM   #10
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The whole thing is disgusting to me that a group of narrow minded assholes can force their free will upon the rest of us. This country makes me sick.

Well, it is for you're own good.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:14 PM   #11
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Well, it is for you're own good.
No, it's not. No one, anywhere, can show me a single person that has ever died as a direct cause of injesting marijuana. Not one, anywhere. There's not a single case, backed by actual FACTS and not wrought with bullshit that demonstrates marijuana is a harmful substance.

But it's totally ok for all of the religious hypocrites to get sloshed at the bar and then crash into and kill others all day long. It's totally ok to sell a substance that will kill you if you inject too much of it, and yet another that will kill you slowly over the course of years.

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All of the cocksuckers who think pot should remain illegal should get the fuck on the buss with that ignorant diatribe of bullshit. I have no use for people that are so completely fucking stupid.

I really wanna smash someone in the face right now.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:16 PM   #12
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The whole thing is disgusting to me that a group of narrow minded assholes can force their free will upon the rest of us. This country makes me sick.


Look I can't do what you do. I get pee tested every once in a while so I *have* to wait for it to become legal. I also have sleeping issues because of my RA (hard to sleep when you are in pain) so a little toke before bed would be awesome. Also a little toke helps the muscles to relax so there's that. And yet, I get pee tested and can't even do it medically.

I am ALL about wanting pot to be legal.

But I won't pay a larger price. Yeah I see people forcing their will on me as a pot issue. But its also a religious issue. And an LGBT issue. etc etc etc. There are worse things than illegal pot.

(also chill out darlin -- Bard was joking)
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:18 PM   #13
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Not addressing the "slippery slope", but as far as pot is concerned, the feds can never legalize it without re-negotiating treaties with outher countries, which isn't going to happen. I can't find reference to the exact treaties, but we have agreed to never legalize pot (and other drugs), and since a treaty rises to the level of "law of the land" like the Constitution, that's that.

And then, with the supremacy of the federal constitution over state law, any state could "legalize" it and it would remain illegal under the federal law. The only question then is whether the feds will enforce it.

So all 50 states could legalize it and if the feds ignore it - fine. But then they decide it's a "menace" and start raiding again, and we're back to square one. The Federal Attorney General could also start challenging the state laws and would likely have them overturned.

Without the ability for the feds to legalize, every other attempt is futile.

do you have a link about the whole treaty thing? i've never heard of that before.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:19 PM   #14
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Look I can't do what you do. I get pee tested every once in a while so I *have* to wait for it to become legal. I also have sleeping issues because of my RA (hard to sleep when you are in pain) so a little toke before bed would be awesome. Also a little toke helps the muscles to relax so there's that. And yet, I get pee tested and can't even do it medically.

I am ALL about wanting pot to be legal.

But I won't pay a larger price. Yeah I see people forcing their will on me as a pot issue. But its also a religious issue. And an LGBT issue. etc etc etc. There are worse things than illegal pot.
It's NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. IF THIS WAS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE THEN BOOZE AND CIGS WOULD BE ILLEGAL TOO.

Anyone who is claiming it's an issue with religion is a fucking lying hypocrite mother fucker. Which makes sense since that's all religion is. Lies and hypocrisy.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:25 PM   #15
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I'm not pissed at Bard. I'm pissed at the X% of the country that is so completely fucked in the head. It's not just about this, although this is a real fucking rub with me. It's about things that are common fucking sense.... keep your lies and your religion out of my government, leave the gay people alone and go fuck yourselves.

Every fucking time we go vote because we're 'doing our part' even though I know in my mind that it's all a bunch of bullshit. Ignorant, self righteous, religious fuckwipes rule this country and will until it's very demise which they are rapidly bringing about with their nonsense.

I don't even know why I fucking bother, I'm never going to be 'equal' because I'm gay, and I smoke pot, and I'm not a typical dumb stoner who sits on her ass all day poppin out babies, I'm actually an educated, highly skilled professional who is highly regarded by my clients.

But that doesn't matter, not to anyone. Not even the handful of fuckers on this board who get up in my face and start with the 'smoke a bowl bitch' jokes because they don't like my opinions. It's stupid asshole shit like that which ruins this country and makes me want to stab people in the fucking eyeballs.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:37 PM   #16
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I don't even know why I fucking bother, I'm never going to be 'equal' because I'm gay, and I smoke pot, and I'm not a typical dumb stoner who sits on her ass all day poppin out babies, I'm actually an educated, highly skilled professional who is highly regarded by my clients.

But that doesn't matter, not to anyone. Not even the handful of fuckers on this board who get up in my face and start with the 'smoke a bowl bitch' jokes because they don't like my opinions. It's stupid asshole shit like that which ruins this country and makes me want to stab people in the fucking eyeballs.
People are always quick to point out differences as if it somehow makes their opinion superior.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:39 PM   #17
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Even some drug growers didn't want it to pass because then they won't be as able to charge such crazy street prices. lame It's an uphill battle, I was hoping to see more numbers come out for the vote. Yeah, I am happy the conversations are furthered. I just get riled up at how retarded it is to keep it illegal.

It's funny though - the initiative to tax pot in a few cities passed.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:41 PM   #18
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People are always quick to point out differences as if it somehow makes their opinion superior.
Except it's not an opinion. It's a fact that it does no harm. It's also a fact that it doesn't harm you for me to smoke it. It's not a 'sin' because that's a bullshit religious concept that has no bearing on anything to do with me.

The country was founded on a principal whereby people live and let live provided that they're not harming others. So the rest is fucking bullshit. Top to bottom, bullshit. All of these supposed 'religions' preach tolerance and acceptance and then stomp on the throats of anyone who doesn't adhere to their version of 'tolerance and acceptance'.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:42 PM   #19
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"I'm gay, and I smoke pot, and I'm a typical dumb stoner who sits on her ass all day poppin out babies, pardon me I feel one coming down the chute now"

This should be on a t-shirt
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #20
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It's NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. IF THIS WAS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE THEN BOOZE AND CIGS WOULD BE ILLEGAL TOO.

Anyone who is claiming it's an issue with religion is a fucking lying hypocrite mother fucker. Which makes sense since that's all religion is. Lies and hypocrisy.
ok my take on what Viv is talking about is not that the pot question is about religion, but that if teh Fed Govt starts allowing states to go their own way on some of these issues it can lead to a state deciding to use it for religion...in other words, if state A is allowed to go agaisnt fed law on pot..state c will decide that it can now pass a law saying that to vote you must be a mormon or a methodist or what ever
that is what she is concerened about if i am reading her correctly.
She has it right, if State A wants to go it along on the drug questions then it needs to stop taking federal monies for any kind of law inforcement. for example Minnesota just decided to not take Federal education money (not sure if it is all or only siome of the fed funding for schools) because we have decided to junk no child left behind. so now we need to accept that we have to pony up our own money to keep our schools going.

i have no issues with pot, i watched my grandmother smoke when she was going through cancer treatment and nothing else helped, it's not for me for a lot of reasons but neither is booze. my vices and addictions are elsewhere.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:49 PM   #21
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It's NOT A RELIGIOUS ISSUE. IF THIS WAS A RELIGIOUS ISSUE THEN BOOZE AND CIGS WOULD BE ILLEGAL TOO.

Anyone who is claiming it's an issue with religion is a fucking lying hypocrite mother fucker. Which makes sense since that's all religion is. Lies and hypocrisy.

you misunderstand. the whole thing where states get to vote whatever they want regardless of federal laws about that IS a religious issue when, for instance, a state decides then that they want to endorse a religion. or that students in public schools can be forced to participate in prayer.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:53 PM   #22
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do you have a link about the whole treaty thing? i've never heard of that before.
I'm pressed for time so I can't search much, but now I'm not so sure the treaty question applies. All I could find was that the US was instrumental in the creation of the Convention for the Suppression of the Illicit Traffic in Dangerous Drugs, an international treaty, in 1936. This was at the height of the "Reefer Madness" era, and Harry J. Anslinger, the head of the newly created Federal Bureau of Narcotics, was a driving force behind the treaty. But the references say that the US ended up not signing the final version, because they thought it too weak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_h..._United_States

Unless there is another treaty (I can't find one), then I was mistaken and it's not a factor. However, numerous federal laws and regulations from the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 through the Controlled Substances Act of the 60's to current Supreme Court rulings have affirmed the Federal government's ability to regulate and/or criminalize pot, so the supremacy issue remains. But if there is no treaty obligation, then changing the law becomes a purely internal affair and not quite as hopeless as I had thought.

But I won't hold my breath.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:55 PM   #23
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you misunderstand. the whole thing where states get to vote whatever they want regardless of federal laws about that IS a religious issue when, for instance, a state decides then that they want to endorse a religion. or that students in public schools can be forced to participate in prayer.
Pot has nothing to do with religion. So trying to use it as a crutch to force the Feds to release them from their obligation to maintain separation of Church and State seems like a stretch to me.

We're saying, this is a fucking stupid law, and we're not going to follow it anymore because there's no valid justification for it. Period. When someone can provide some, great. But how long has it been illegal now? And there's not a single bit of valid evidence that it does any harm to anyone, and there's a fuckton of proof that booze, a currently legal substance, can, will and does kill thousands of people a year.

At some point, someone HAS to pull their head out of their ass or we'll never get anywhere. In this day and age letting the invisible man in the sky run things is getting a bit bothersome. We're all grown ups, and fairy tales are just that.

Good Times.

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Old 11-03-2010, 12:55 PM   #24
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No, it's not. No one, anywhere, can show me a single person that has ever died as a direct cause of injesting marijuana. Not one, anywhere. There's not a single case, backed by actual FACTS and not wrought with bullshit that demonstrates marijuana is a harmful substance.

.
Ahem !! Psychotic episode led to crime spree, judge rules

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Withdrawal from marijuana triggered a psychotic episode in a pot head who went on a crime spree which included sexually assaulting a woman, a judge has ruled.
I think the judge needs to give his head a shake personally tho... there is no scientific evidence that pot is addictive... just posting it because it is stuff like this (scapegoating) that will ensure it is never legalized.
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:58 PM   #25
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Ahem !! Psychotic episode led to crime spree, judge rules



I think the judge needs to give his head a shake personally tho... there is no scientific evidence that pot is addictive... just posting it because it is stuff like this (scapegoating) that will ensure it is never legalized.
Like I said, not a shred of VALID, FACTUAL evidence, anywhere. Not one bit.

I"m sure if I dig around I can find the UC Berkley study that demonstrates people on pot drive safer than people who are drinking, and in some cases better than sober people.

I can dig up and find countless links to factual studies showing how marijuana benefits people, but I don't recall ever reading a report about why I should consume copious amounts of alcohol.

In fact, there's at least 5 or 6 spots a week on the news about some fuckwit overdosing himself with booze and date raping someone, or killing someone via alcohol poisoning.

Yeah but it's all good though... toss back those brewskies!
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:59 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Bams View Post
Pot has nothing to do with religion. So trying to use it as a crutch to force the Feds to release them from their obligation to maintain separation of Church and State seems like a stretch to me.

We're saying, this is a fucking stupid law, and we're not going to follow it anymore because there's no valid justification for it. Period. When someone can provide some, great. But how long has it been illegal now? And there's not a single bit of valid evidence that it does any harm to anyone, and there's a fuckton of proof that booze, a currently legal substance, can, will and does kill thousands of people a year.

At some point, someone HAS to pull their head out of their ass or we'll never get anywhere. In this day and age letting the invisible man in the sky run things is getting a bit bothersome. We're all grown ups, and fairy tales are just that.

Good Times.


it isn't about pot having anything to do with religion. its about a state making their own laws regardless of the federal law. if you can just vote to make pot legal, then you can just vote to have school prayer. or you can just vote to... i dunno break some federal gun law.

the point is that states cannot just decide they don't like a federal law and put it to the people to vote on it.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:03 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Vivianne Draper View Post
it isn't about pot having anything to do with religion. its about a state making their own laws regardless of the federal law. if you can just vote to make pot legal, then you can just vote to have school prayer. or you can just vote to... i dunno break some federal gun law.

the point is that states cannot just decide they don't like a federal law and put it to the people to vote on it.
And my point is that those things aren't the same. That's a ridiculous notion and I refuse to buy into this 'slippery slope' bullshit. I"m tired of this kind of crap being used to block perfectly good legislation when it's just a guise for bigotry.

Slippery slope of gay marriage, slippery slope of pot, slippery slope of gun control, blah blah blah blah blah.

All the while you're pissing on the rights of people in this country. LIVE AND LET THE FUCK LIVE.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:05 PM   #28
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Here's the difference Viv....

be legalizing Pot, you're not harming anyone, or forcing them to smoke pot. The laws were clear about it not being legal in public places. So it's not like the second this thing drops, you're gonna walk into Starbuck's and it'll be hotboxed and full of bongs. So that's fucking stupid, even though that's the picture the assholes want you to have.

In comparison, by legalizing prayer in school, you are FORCING EVERYONE to capitulate to your religion, which is fucking bullshit.

It all goes back to live and let live. If you're not fucking with me, I'm not fucking with you. See. If you want to prey, prey the fuck at home, or in your church where you belong, and I'll smoke pot in my room before I go out and we can all get along just fine.

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:06 PM   #29
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Like I said, not a shred of VALID, FACTUAL evidence, anywhere. Not one bit.

I"m sure if I dig around I can find the UC Berkley study that demonstrates people on pot drive safer than people who are drinking, and in some cases better than sober people.

I can dig up and find countless links to factual studies showing how marijuana benefits people, but I don't recall ever reading a report about why I should consume copious amounts of alcohol.

In fact, there's at least 5 or 6 spots a week on the news about some fuckwit overdosing himself with booze and date raping someone, or killing someone via alcohol poisoning.

Yeah but it's all good though... toss back those brewskies!
yea.. about alcohol.... Alcohol 'more harmful than heroin or crack'
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:08 PM   #30
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I know that I had a friend near death due to alcohol poisoning once, and I've lost friends in accidents, where they were drinking, or someone else was. I've never lost a friend to a 'weed' incident. No one has ever been found dead at a party from a weed overdose.

If you take 13 asprin, however, which is available at the $1 store, it'll be your last headache.

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:09 PM   #31
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as an addendum: in my view alcohol is THE gateway drug to everything else, personally I don't drink or use any drugs.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:11 PM   #32
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as an addendum: in my view alcohol is THE gateway drug to everything else, personally I don't drink or use any drugs.
Bunnie and I smoke copious amounts of weed daily and I wake up in the morning with no ill effects.

Last night I had a little under a half bottle of Burnette's and not only did I damn near puke myself stupid, I feel like complete shit this morning.

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:14 PM   #33
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Bunnie and I smoke copious amounts of weed daily and I wake up in the morning with no ill effects.

Last night I had a little under a half bottle of Burnette's and not only did I damn near puke myself stupid, I feel like complete shit this morning.

yes... I was a hash smoker and had no ill effects from it. Pot however... I could never smoke... if i walked down the sidewalk stoned and a car drove by... i would be thinking "zomg they knows im stoned O.O "
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:15 PM   #34
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yes... I was a hash smoker and had no ill effects from it. Pot however... I could never smoke... if i walked down the sidewalk stoned and a car drove by... i would be thinking "zomg they knows im stoned O.O "
Well, ok but that's not really a 'harmful side effect'.

It goes away after you begin to smoke regularly. And as long as you don't smoke any of that crap weed they're bringing up from the south.

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:19 PM   #35
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Here's the difference Viv....

be legalizing Pot, you're not harming anyone, or forcing them to smoke pot. The laws were clear about it not being legal in public places. So it's not like the second this thing drops, you're gonna walk into Starbuck's and it'll be hotboxed and full of bongs. So that's fucking stupid, even though that's the picture the assholes want you to have.

In comparison, by legalizing prayer in school, you are FORCING EVERYONE to capitulate to your religion, which is fucking bullshit.

It all goes back to live and let live. If you're not fucking with me, I'm not fucking with you. See. If you want to prey, prey the fuck at home, or in your church where you belong, and I'll smoke pot in my room before I go out and we can all get along just fine.

Bams -- I agree with you. Its just that it doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is that the state voted to override a federal law. It doesn't matter what the law is. If it can be used to legalize pot it can be used for other things.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:24 PM   #36
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You're right about one thing, it doesn't matter. Because the corps are in the process of usurping what little control the government actually possesses right now. And by the time the next presidential election rolls around, this will be the least of our concerns.

I'm still bent about it. And if the wrong fucker says something to me about it today they might just get backhanded. That vodka sucks. I should have stuck with Amaretto like Bunns did.

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:25 PM   #37
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Given the foul mood I've been in lately, I'd just like to get legal weed somehow. I don't care how but I *really* need it.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:31 PM   #38
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Well I've forgotten more about drug abuse than most of you (including Bams) will ever know. And pot and hash never gave me any ill side effects unless you count getting the munchies and getting sleepy and relaxed and happy as an ill side effect.

Bams for a great high -- try smoking pot out of an apple.
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:36 PM   #39
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IT's like Katt Williams said, "the guy isn't dead... he might look dead, but he's going to wake up in 30 minutes hungry enough to eat up everything in your house."

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Old 11-03-2010, 01:39 PM   #40
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the govt should realize that we would be much more docile about them reaming us if we were stoned.

I DEMAND MY LEGAL SOMA DAMMIT
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