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ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'
Old 06-23-2010, 03:44 AM   #1
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Default ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'

Around 20 Zindrans attend the Community Meetings on Mondays with Blondin Linden. The latest discussion was around using the sim named Zindra to produce community events. A few months ago I used elements from DPW Linden Builds to create a welcome courtyard for Zindra Sim. I passed it to Blondin Linden and he placed it at Zindra. Then others passed him welcome and adult verification notecards to add there also.

We were well on our way to developing a community developed and involved area that we would use year-round to promote the hideen continent of Zindra.

After the Zindra Expo we started discussing the community builds on the sim of Zindra that would be used to promote the comtinent in PG areas so we can get around the search firewall somewhat.

Since we waited a year and DPW never made any effort to do anything with the sim of Zindra, and the noobs keep landing their looking for 'Zindra the Adult Continent' (and all they get is a lawn then teleport away) We decided it was time we make the sim work for the tier payers. DPW wanted to do some merchant auction site that would not be advertised outside of adult verified areas and avatars. That does us no good at all. And they never got started or communicated after a year.

All of a sudden Blondin started back-peddling and making up things like 'only build by DPW can be on Linden Land' while the coourtyard I built still remains the only thing on the sim of Zindra. Two weeks ago Blondin was taking suggestions for a community run marketing build on Zindra - then he started back-peddling and pretended like we had not move forward at all. And then today he sends out this message to a private Zindra resident group:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondin Linden
Group Notice From: Blondin Linden
Hey all!
So I got DPW to bring that Zindra build that was put on hold back online and it looks like once a few textures are replaced, its ready to go. It has NOT been parceled.
I've posted some pics and an outline of what the build looks like on the ZIndra Sim. Come have a look. I'll be here for a few more minutes to answer questions.
Wut?

He dropped two cubes of some crowded looking areas for us to look at and then went away.

So months of planning and community development (and wasting our time) comes down to absolutely nothing. No communication about what we want on the sim of Zindra - just a market stall run by DPW.




Why Blondin made the effort to get DPW to start the build to kill our plans is not clear to me. He did not pull this trick on the Bay City Tier payers. They have community land owned by Linden Lab that they use for marketing their community. And ours has just been taken away from us.

Qie's draft below is inclusive of DPW's merchant stalls and the community suggestions. BUt I see from what Blondin announced to a small group today - none of the community wants will be considered at all ever.

/rant off
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Originally Posted by Qie Niangao View Post
What may be emerging are some of the differences between "product" and "service" businesses... or maybe between different customer "demographics" and how effectively marketing to them can be targeted.

Anyway, FWIW, I've sketched a strawman Zindra sim layout that merges what I understand to be the current ideas for the sim, and relates it to the surroundings a bit. It's attached below. Some notes:

The Lottery Mall belongs on the south edge of the sim, as shown, not across the river from the Mosh build. That way it frames the sim space, and relates sensibly to the neighboring private commercial parcels (as does the Mosh build itself).

Even if the LEA thing turns out to be hopeless (and I have not given up yet), we need some public art on the sim. I don't care if it's Adult or not, but I believe it can be at least as compelling a draw as live music--especially for folks who are likely to spend some L$s on products elsewhere on the continent. Hence the River Art Walk under the bridges, and the "Conference Center Gallery."

Whether Zindra content has to be adult or not, content on Oritz won't be, so whatever we use to get interested folks from the InfoHub to Zindra will have to start out PG.

The Forest Maze seems naturally located between the Oritz woods and the central square. (Don't be confused by the "Orgy Forest" to the south-west; that's long gone from there, and the parcel for sale... and it was never much of a forest in the first place.)

The Performance Space is close to the sim edge in case there are occasional spill-over crowds in excess of 40 avatars on Zindra. That neighboring sim is double-primmed, with the water-bordering parcel "protected." Hence, I think it will stay Linden-owned, so we may be able to arrange for it to share a stream with Zindra performances.

I moved the Conference Center to the Gallery because there's very likely to be schedule overlap between small group meetings and performances. (Also, the bandshell meeting set up is really not very successful; indeed, if we don't already have a better build for the performance space by move-in day, that should be a very early goal of a build contest.)
I think life will be better for everybody if the Build Contest is held on a platform, somewhere above 500m AGL. (Probably below 768m AGL, though, so blacklist bans still have effect without needing scripted security.)
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Old 06-23-2010, 05:01 PM   #2
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Good.

The next step should be to remove any and all information kiosks at all info hubs, welcome areas and such.

I'm surprised that it got as far as it did with these talks ... After all, the "community" in question is little more than the makers (and some users) of adult classified content that decided that they were now the same as Bay City or Nautilus.

Surprise! You're not. Hell, you're not as special as you'd like to think you are. Hell, why you feel the needs to "market" Zindra to people who have not age or adult verified is beyond me ... If a user has not age or adult verified then one of two things is true:

1. They do not want or need to.
2. They have yet to encounter a sim or parcel that requires them to do so. There are still plenty of Mature rated sims - most of these "private" islands - that have sexual materials at a high altitude and not blatantly advertised.

Now then, number two easily handles the whole "But but but - some of them might be ignorant of the fact that they need to age/adult verify to enter areas with sexual content!" shtick some people seem to love to use in defense of their special snowflake attitudes.

After that initial move, Linden Lab did not bother doing anything at all about adult content unless they got a substantial number of abuse reports on a single parcel. The owners adjusted to the new conditions, found ways to work "within" them and moved on.

Yep, Zindra has the advantage of being allowed to blatantly display and advertise adult content - to those who want to see it.

Personally? The entire age verification system needs to be scrapped and a simple check box ala porn sites needs to be put in its place. Then the lazy ass parents need to get off their lazy asses and actually do some parenting. Put some restrictions on your fucking kids' computers and actually monitor them for Christ's sake. Unless your kids are little computer geniuses ... they won't be able to easily crack the password on your administration level account so they can install and use Second Life on the main grid or alter any of the settings/restrictions you've put into place.

I have no sympathy for the lazy asses who use the age/generation gap as an excuse. If you don't fucking know how to do it ... find someone who fucking can. If you do know how to do it, there's this nifty bit of software called LogMeIn that would allow you to see what your kids are doing from another PC ... and to take control of their mouse and other functions if you find them doing something stupid. You can even run it hidden in the background so that their only warning is when the nice little porn site they are looking at suddenly closes.
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ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'
Old 06-23-2010, 05:55 PM   #3
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Default ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'

We all know that LL apointed Blondin Linden to negotiate with the displaced adult content tier payers to stave off a class action suit. The simpliest solution would be to award us the same thing the awarded Bay City tier payers ( free mainland sim to promote the community ). Instead he buddies up with Michael Linden to take over what we anticipated would be used to help us reach over the search firewall they erected around us.

One year anniversary of purposely negatively impacting the income of paying customers. The efforts to rectify this on- going problem have been less than stellar.
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Old 06-23-2010, 06:07 PM   #4
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Almost looks like Luna. Maybe LL's gonna make for a bigger mall lottery? That reminds me, I should update the scripts in my doll keys. (>_<)
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lias View Post
We all know that LL apointed Blondin Linden to negotiate with the displaced adult content tier payers to stave off a class action suit. The simpliest solution would be to award us the same thing the awarded Bay City tier payers ( free mainland sim to promote the community ). Instead he buddies up with Michael Linden to take over what we anticipated would be used to help us reach over the search firewall they erected around us.

One year anniversary of purposely negatively impacting the income of paying customers. The efforts to rectify this on- going problem have been less than stellar.
No Lias, the simplest solution would be to tell you to go fuck yourself.

Class action lawsuit? Over doing far more than any porn site on the internet does to try and keep minors out? Yeah ... A smart judge would laugh you out of court and force everyone to pay the legal expenses for everything.

I'll say it again: You're not special. Zindra has no "community".

what you should get is the exact same treatment they give all other users. Instead you're pushing for special treatment under the guise of evening the playing field.

Guess what? It'll be even the moment they remove all traces of Zindra related materials from all info hubs and welcome areas. Zindra is not a themed continent, it's not a community. It is the first continent with a newer content classification designed to pander to the whims of lazy parents and prudes, like the ones that make the laws here in the United States. The exact same people who also pander to the whims of those self same lazy parents.

Not a one of the users on Zindra needs any sort of special treatment. I've already given you the real reasons as to why most ordinary users do not age verify.

Suck it up, adapt, move on .... or fail and be forced out. Like every other business that has ever had a change from LL occur.
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Old 06-23-2010, 07:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atra Lupis View Post
I'll say it again: You're not special. Zindra has no "community".
The cumdumpsters at the Orgy Pit Breeding Forest disagree.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian View Post
The cumdumpsters at the Orgy Pit Breeding Forest disagree.
Good for them! Take a number.
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Old 06-23-2010, 08:41 PM   #8
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I don't see what's wrong with these people forming a community.

And I like the plans that were posted.

From what I can gather, they were strung along for a year, while they wasted effort on something they weren't going to get after all.

And they are obviously a community, whether or not anyone gives them permission to be one.

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Old 06-23-2010, 09:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lias View Post
We were well on our way to developing a community developed and involved area that we would use year-round to promote the hideen continent of Zindra.

It's almost like a few employees at LL read the post where you called MLK a racist.

If you learn to engage your brain before you open your mouth you'd get a lot further.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:10 PM   #10
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The cumdumpsters at the Orgy Pit Breeding Forest disagree.
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Old 06-23-2010, 09:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristian View Post
The cumdumpsters at the Orgy Pit Breeding Forest disagree.
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Originally Posted by Forest View Post
does that mean you agree?
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:18 AM   #12
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Again I ask, what are you laughing at, Atra? Is there something I don't know?

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Old 06-24-2010, 12:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala View Post
Again I ask, what are you laughing at, Atra? Is there something I don't know?

Nah, just laughing in general at the opinions you've expressed and how some of them only serve to enable the types who seem to view Zindra as being "special" enough to warrant Linden Lab placing additional information concerning the Adult Continent in info hubs and welcome areas.

I'm also laughing at the notion that "Adult Content" in general is somehow a community ... BDSM, Furry, Kid et al ... Those are communities.
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Old 06-24-2010, 12:31 AM   #14
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Pixel Perverts and Virtual Escorts can be a community too ya know!
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Re: ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'
Old 06-24-2010, 02:15 AM   #15
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Eh, if enough of them band together and talk then they are a community, there is nothing you can say that will really refute that. You can argue the merits of the community however as that is open to individual interpretation.

I wandered to the big Zindra event and its Sim, and I don't know what I was really expecting, adult artistic expression or perhaps a celebration of the sensual, but instead it was just the same old dick 'n pony show that SL has always denigrated into. All it needed was a casino and some fuckwit feeding a sploder /howling as top 40 played in the background to become the perfect storm of all that is cliche'd and contrite about SL. I'm not trying to knock the adult community, as I think everyone here has sampled it at some point, but come on. We can do better than this. In fact, remembering Strokers old Aamsterdam Sim, we already have done better.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:36 AM   #16
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I like the dolly community. (^_^)
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatz View Post
It's almost like a few employees at LL read the post where you called MLK a racist.
Fatz, this statement makes no sense. And you are lying also. I think you are confused about what thread you are in.

Quote:
If you learn to engage your brain before you open your mouth you'd get a lot further.
Take your advice and just stop attempting to give me your bizzarro insulting advice. You are just off topic and trolling for no apparent reason - well, so is Atra but that is to be expected.

This is just an update of information for people involved with Zindra. I posted it where they can see it in several places. Use the opportunity to passive agressively insult all you want - but no one really cares.

I await the press release about Phil returning and M leaving (if it happens) to see where we are in this mess.

In the end: Blondin is on record planning this community build with us. We devised a okan to share the 65,000 meters with Michael Linden. And we need that adressed immediately. Since Bay City tier payers have full use of a Linden SIm for community events - Zindra can have the exact same treatment.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:27 AM   #18
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Quote:
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Eh, if enough of them band together and talk then they are a community, there is nothing you can say that will really refute that. You can argue the merits of the community however as that is open to individual interpretation.

I'm not trying to knock the adult community, as I think everyone here has sampled it at some point, but come on. We can do better than this. In fact, remembering Strokers old Aamsterdam Sim, we already have done better.
We all paid mainland tier because we did not want to be a community. We were spread out all over the grid on purpose.

Linden Lab forced hundreds of tier payers to become neighbors, assigned a staff person that told us we were now a community and told us we had to figure out a plan collectively to solve the search firewall problem Linden Lab purposely created.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:30 AM   #19
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Maybe, a Chamber of Adult Commerce?
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Old 06-24-2010, 04:33 AM   #20
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Lias, what you are experiencing here is that when you behave like a total cunt in other threads, you do not get much sympathy even when you are right. Not so strange.

And yes, I think you are right here; LL forced all adult content creators to relocate to Zindra, so it would be nice if they followed up on that. Especially when promises were made in the past. Not that I am surprised they do not follow up: probably they rather see Zindra slowly vanish into thin air.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:17 AM   #21
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Quote:
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Since Bay City tier payers have full use of a Linden SIm for community events - Zindra can have the exact same treatment.
No - they can't. Zindra isn't Bay City or Nautilus. End of story.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:44 AM   #22
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No - they can't. Zindra isn't Bay City or Nautilus. End of story.
Yet both exist of tier paying customers, of which the Zindra people even were forced to go over there, it was no free choice for many of them. So why can't they? I mean, probably they will not get it, but the remark: they can't seems kind of strange.
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:50 AM   #23
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Bay City was made to attract people with interests in a vintage Art Deco American-esque envronment. (^_^)

Nautilus was made to attract people with interests in an ancient coastal megalopolis environment. (^_^)

Zindra was made to segregate people with interests in profiting off of online virtual sex. (^_^)y
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Old 06-24-2010, 09:53 AM   #24
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Bay City was made to attract people with interests in a vintage Art Deco American-esque envronment. (^_^)

Nautilus was made to attract people with interests in an ancient coastal megalopolis environment. (^_^)

Zindra was made to segregate people with interests in profiting off of online virtual sex. (^_^)y
Well in fact all 3 were made to get as many people paying tier to LL as possible

Seriously, I understand where you are getting from, and that probably is the reason the sim isnt there and won't come. That does not make it fair though.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
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Yet both exist of tier paying customers, of which the Zindra people even were forced to go over there, it was no free choice for many of them. So why can't they? I mean, probably they will not get it, but the remark: they can't seems kind of strange.
I've already outlined earlier in this thread just exactly why what Lias thinks Zindra needs .... isn't what Zindra needs, nor what it deserves. The simple fact of the matter is that age/adult verification is as optional as having payment information on file with Linden Lab.

I've also said in another thread that the Lindens placing age verification information out in the info hubs and welcome areas is an utterly unfair practice as they never did the same with PIOF.

By default, much of Zindra was not flagged to prevent people lacking age verification from entering: If you're adult verified (meaning you've got payment information that you've actually used) you could get in.

Anyone who takes it farther than that baseline setting is doing so just as willingly as those who prevent access to NPIOF users and should get no special treatment.

I do find it amusing that Lias has taken a page out of Prok's book, though in a different manner of course. Anyone who disagrees with her is "trolling". Yeah .... Personally, I toss the opinions of such people right out the window. Don't like dissent? don't put it in a public forum.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:15 AM   #26
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@Atra: However I understand what you are writing, I completely fail to see how it relates to the posting you are quoting.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:42 AM   #27
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My, you sure do pee alot in threads, Atra.

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Old 06-24-2010, 12:27 PM   #28
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Lias, what you are experiencing here is that when you behave like a total cunt in other threads, you do not get much sympathy even when you are right. Not so strange.
Marcel, firstly - openly label your mother or grandmother a cunt at the next family gathering and see how that goes over. Just because you are anonymously writing on the internet does not mean you should prove to everyone that you are an ignorant woman hater. Grow up.

And I am not experiencing any of that. When someone writes something you do not like - you do not thread stalk them and troll off topic as much as you can just to make yourself feel better. That is the trait of a disturbed personality. I am amazed you endorse such behavior.

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And yes, I think you are right here; LL forced all adult content creators to relocate to Zindra, so it would be nice if they followed up on that. Especially when promises were made in the past. Not that I am surprised they do not follow up: probably they rather see Zindra slowly vanish into thin air.
Agreed. But LL still stands the chance of having to defend themselves in a court of law about this. Especially since they have admitted we need help getting our exposure back up.
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:55 PM   #29
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Lias, what you are experiencing here is that when you behave like a total cunt in other threads, you do not get much sympathy even when you are right. Not so strange.
I swear, I think some people spend their lives at their computer on forums, deciding who they *don't like.*

Then they spend the rest of their time running around in all the threads wherever those people show up, indicating how they *don't like them.*

And, of course, indicating to others why no one else should, either.

Even when it has zero to do with the topic. Even if it is a total STRETCH to the topic. Like saying that something someone said once on a forum that someone else thought was racist would in fact cause an entire company to set up that particular person in order to take it out on them and the whole group they are associated with months later.

It's a very strange phenomenon. Kind of reminds me when a new kid comes to school, and several of the other kids (who fancy themselves to be the cool kids, but who rarely actually are), take the kid aside real quick in order to clue them in to who is cool and who they aren't supposed to talk to.

So it's not like, "That person is a cunt, therefore it is not strange that people would follow them around anywhere and everywhere to remind everyone rightly of their cuntitude," but more like, "Losers who follow people around in order to do this are cunts themselves who should get out of grade school and get a life."
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Old 06-24-2010, 01:57 PM   #30
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When someone writes something you do not like - you do not thread stalk them and troll off topic as much as you can just to make yourself feel better. That is the trait of a disturbed personality. I am amazed you endorse such behavior.
The irony, it runneth over.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:01 PM   #31
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The irony, it runneth over.
That is not what happened and you know it. I spoke on topic and only mentioned the other times (and had not spoken to this person regarding that for a year) to show history of such behaviour. Please stop desperately trying to defend the undefendable. A difference of opinion does not make anyone right. Agree to disagree - let others speak for themselves and move on.
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Re: ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'
Old 06-24-2010, 02:04 PM   #32
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When someone writes something you do not like - you do not thread stalk them and troll off topic as much as you can just to make yourself feel better.
The irony, it runneth over.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:12 PM   #33
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So you had the chance to hold back and not echo ignorance - but you chose to post it anyway.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:15 PM   #34
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That is not what happened and you know it. I spoke on topic and only mentioned the other times (and had not spoken to this person regarding that for a year) to show history of such behaviour. Please stop desperately trying to defend the undefendable. A difference of opinion does not make anyone right. Agree to disagree - let others speak for themselves and move on.
I'm actually referring to your behaviour towards Immy over an extended time period Lias.

You described it perfectly in that paragraph.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:21 PM   #35
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I'm actually referring to your behaviour towards Immy over an extended time period Lias.

You described it perfectly in that paragraph.
The same statement I made above applies Lucifer (and I know that you feel so compelled to defend Imnotagirl for some reason - even when I have not responded to him or commented on his posts for some time - But I just had a heated exchange with your GF).

If Imnotagirl discusses the welcome area I discuss that, if he discusses the volunteer group I discuss that. I see no reason to completely loose self control and stalk off topic through threads - but you do as you please.
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Re: ZINDRA: The setbacks just keep on comin'
Old 06-24-2010, 02:25 PM   #36
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I'm actually referring to your behaviour towards Immy over an extended time period Lias.

You described it perfectly in that paragraph.
The same statement I made above applies Lucifer (and I know that you feel so compelled to defend Imnotagirl for some reason - even when I have not responded to him or commented on his posts for some time - But I just had a heated exchange with your GF).

If Imnotagirl discusses the welcome area I discuss that, if he discusses the volunteer group I discuss that. I see no reason to completely loose self control and stalk off topic through threads - but you do as you please.
The continued use of the insulting ImNotAGirl name just kinda proves that you are not above entirely irrelivant to the conversation at hand attacks to get your jollies off. I'm sorry that the 18 pounds of crazy circling your head at any given moment obscures you from that rather hypocritical bit of self knowledge.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:28 PM   #37
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When someone writes something you do not like - you do not thread stalk them and troll off topic as much as you can just to make yourself feel better. That is the trait of a disturbed personality. I am amazed you endorse such behavior.
http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/s...ead.php?t=6982
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:37 PM   #38
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Marcel, firstly - openly label your mother or grandmother a cunt at the next family gathering and see how that goes over. Just because you are anonymously writing on the internet does not mean you should prove to everyone that you are an ignorant woman hater. Grow up.

And I am not experiencing any of that. When someone writes something you do not like - you do not thread stalk them and troll off topic as much as you can just to make yourself feel better. That is the trait of a disturbed personality. I am amazed you endorse such behavior.
You should learn to read. It is not you I labeled a cunt, it is your behavious I labeled as a cunt. Of course I could agree with the statement it was not necessary, as most if not all people here already know it. Marcel de Hoog is my name by the way. So, no longer anonymous. Makes any difference?

As for woman hater... where did that come from? Because I label your bahaviour as that of a cunt, does that make me hate all women? Better ask that to the other ladies I interact with on this forum, or in real life

As for the last statement, you could not get any more ridiculous. As far as I know, I supported your OP, even as the only one so far I guess. Is that thread stalking? The rest I would have pointed out is already taken care of

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Agreed. But LL still stands the chance of having to defend themselves in a court of law about this. Especially since they have admitted we need help getting our exposure back up.
Personally I do not believe for a second that they are even remotely scared of that.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:45 PM   #39
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As for woman hater... where did that come from? Because I label your bahaviour as that of a cunt, does that make me hate all women?
That pretty much sums it up.

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As for the last statement, you could not get any more ridiculous. As far as I know, I supported your OP, even as the only one so far I guess. Is that thread stalking? The rest I would have pointed out is already taken care of
I was not referrign to you - I was referrign to the poster in this thread you were defending for thread stalking.
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Personally I do not believe for a second that they are even remotely scared of that.
I do not think they are scared either. They have I think three class action suits in litigation against them right now - one more wouldnt be an issue. But the publicity is not good. And they will pay us all a little money or give us free something like they did when they introduced direct teleport and de-valued all of the mainland infohub land in 2006.
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Old 06-24-2010, 02:49 PM   #40
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The continued use of the insulting ImNotAGirl name just kinda proves that you are not above entirely irrelivant to the conversation at hand attacks to get your jollies off.
It is not about jollies. When imnotagirl removes my name from his sig line I will cease from referring to him as imnotagirl. He is aware of this. His choice. Don't butt in on other's arguments - no one asked you to intervene.
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