Making the place available only for age verified avatars, and hiding Adult Search from the average user, means you have to educate them though. Tell them that the naughty stuff is only available for people that either age verified, or purchased/sold linden dollars. Tell them how to enable adult content in the search engine. This would not only be fair to the adult content providers (paying customers after all), but also to the new people who might actually enjoy the adult part of SL.
ZINDRA IS NOT AGE VERIFIED ONLY!!!!
damn it. How do I get that across already? If it was for age verified only, I wouldn't even have access to adult land. Shesh. Age verified adds the ability to get to both Adult land and age verified land. But you do not have to be age verified to get to adult land that does not have age verified checked.
And Zindra does not have it checked by default!
That was my whole bloody point in this stupid thread. Well, that and some random nonsense about if you do not know about needing to check adult in preferences so can see adult stuff, after it is checked again there, to see adult in search, but I do not care about that point any longer.
(yes, I know that you, Marcel, included "either age verified, or purchased/sold linden dollars. ", but you didn't start off that way)
I understand the viewpoint Marcel, however to me this whole thing is no different that Linden Lab allowing users to restrict access to those who have payment information on file.
Yeah, I know one is an optional setting and the other is not: It really doesn't make a difference to me though. On the user end (the one's roaming the grid, not the business owners) it's wholly optional either way.
No one bothered to tell me that I may need to have payment information on file to get into some places in Second Life. Age Verification should not be treated any differently.
But the fact that one is optional and the other not is key. As a business owner, you can choose to require PIOF or not. And assume the consequences of making such a decision. As an adult business owner, you are forced to require adult land access. The consequences are forced on you.
And it's clear that LL has deliberately made adult content difficult to access, through both the means of first having to understand what it is and how to get it, and also by jumping through some hoops to gain access.
SL is supposed to be recreation time for many (potential customers), and when LL makes an environment which requires research to access, some will choose to go do something else.
They are cleaning up their grid through the mechanism of obfuscation. It's not going to make the adult content go away, but it will reduce its prevalence and visibility.
So the difference may not bother you, but it sure bothers others.
Lias is overstating the case to make her point, but there is some truth to what she says. Her solution is pretty smart in that it drums up business for herself, and since she's not pretending to be performing some sort of community service (in this case) I really don't see what's to criticize.
But the fact that one is optional and the other not is key. As a business owner, you can choose to require PIOF or not. And assume the consequences of making such a decision. As an adult business owner, you are forced to require adult land access. The consequences are forced on you.
And it's clear that LL has deliberately made adult content difficult to access, through both the means of first having to understand what it is and how to get it, and also by jumping through some hoops to gain access.
SL is supposed to be recreation time for many (potential customers), and when LL makes an environment which requires research to access, some will choose to go do something else.
They are cleaning up their grid through the mechanism of obfuscation. It's not going to make the adult content go away, but it will reduce its prevalence and visibility.
So the difference may not bother you, but it sure bothers others.
Lias is overstating the case to make her point, but there is some truth to what she says. Her solution is pretty smart in that it drums up business for herself, and since she's not pretending to be performing some sort of community service (in this case) I really don't see what's to criticize.
This time.
ah, but she is pretending to be doing some sort of community service Love: She has suggested moving the Age Verification system to be an optional part of sign ups and is all in favor of having Linden Lab provide information concerning Age Verification to users ... when they do not do the same for PIOF Only parcels.
The fact of the matter is this: Unless a parcel owner on Adult Land checks off the little box that bars those who have not age verified from their land ... Age Verification is still optional.
I can access Zindra and Adult Search just fine without having to age verify, however I know that in order to enter some parcels, I have to use the age verification system.
I know this simply due to my experiences concerning PIOF Only parcels and from following the blog concerning age verification.
It is not Linden Lab's job to provide the information concerning Age Verification Vs. Adult Verification to users.
Not while they still do not provide the information concerning PIOF Only parcels.
Provide both or provide neither: Either way, neither one is favored over the other.
In short? I'm wholly against what Lias is asking for: Providing information concerning Age Verification (utterly optional and not required to visit Zindra) while saying nothing concerning another optional process.
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Yes, I agree that age verification (as opposed to adult access) is more akin to PIOF. Yet people still need educated on accessing adult content. Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
Yes, I agree that age verification (as opposed to adult access) is more akin to PIOF. Yet people still need educated on accessing adult content. Perhaps we're talking at cross purposes.
I'll agree that they need the education.
I disagree that Linden Lab should have any part of providing it until they agree to provide it for Adult Verification (required to even view Adult Content), Age Verification (Optional) and PIOF Only parcel access (Optional).
The simple fact of the matter is this: At one point, if you wanted to join your friends at that spiffy club they always drone on about, you HAD to have PIOF because the whole bloody region was PIOF Only parcels. There are STILL places in SL that cling to that old "Anti-Griefer" option.
Zindra really isn't much different.
Yes, it sucks for those forced to move there. They cannot be seen by each and every user anymore.
However, it is not in the interest of fairness for Linden Lab to provide users with the information Lias is saying they should provide.
Besides that, I'm seeing a lot more new users who already have PIOF from day one: They got into Second Life and were told that the fastest way to get money in world for shopping was to buy it yourself.
The best post regarding the use of the sim of Zindra to promote Adult Verification and the continent of Zindra was posted by Qie Niangao:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qie Niangao
What may be emerging are some of the differences between "product" and "service" businesses... or maybe between different customer "demographics" and how effectively marketing to them can be targeted.
Anyway, FWIW, I've sketched a strawman Zindra sim layout that merges what I understand to be the current ideas for the sim, and relates it to the surroundings a bit. It's attached below. Some notes:
The Lottery Mall belongs on the south edge of the sim, as shown, not across the river from the Mosh build. That way it frames the sim space, and relates sensibly to the neighboring private commercial parcels (as does the Mosh build itself).
Even if the LEA thing turns out to be hopeless (and I have not given up yet), we need some public art on the sim. I don't care if it's Adult or not, but I believe it can be at least as compelling a draw as live music--especially for folks who are likely to spend some L$s on products elsewhere on the continent. Hence the River Art Walk under the bridges, and the "Conference Center Gallery."
Whether Zindra content has to be adult or not, content on Oritz won't be, so whatever we use to get interested folks from the InfoHub to Zindra will have to start out PG.
The Forest Maze seems naturally located between the Oritz woods and the central square. (Don't be confused by the "Orgy Forest" to the south-west; that's long gone from there, and the parcel for sale... and it was never much of a forest in the first place.)
The Performance Space is close to the sim edge in case there are occasional spill-over crowds in excess of 40 avatars on Zindra. That neighboring sim is double-primmed, with the water-bordering parcel "protected." Hence, I think it will stay Linden-owned, so we may be able to arrange for it to share a stream with Zindra performances.
I moved the Conference Center to the Gallery because there's very likely to be schedule overlap between small group meetings and performances. (Also, the bandshell meeting set up is really not very successful; indeed, if we don't already have a better build for the performance space by move-in day, that should be a very early goal of a build contest.)
I think life will be better for everybody if the Build Contest is held on a platform, somewhere above 500m AGL. (Probably below 768m AGL, though, so blacklist bans still have effect without needing scripted security.)
for having "age verified" and "adult verified" mean two different things. 
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