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-   -   The Comings and Goings of Mero (http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=15551)

Merovigan 02-02-2012 10:14 PM

/deep breath.

I’ve been put in a shitty situation. I was in a power struggle and it sort of ended the way ultimate power struggles end – with both sides devastated from the results. Let me explain.

My wife punched me in the face on Sunday. Twice. We were in a fight, and I had something she wanted and was holding it out of her reach until she asked me nicely. She wasn’t really in the mood for that. She was all over me, trying to pry this thing out of my hand and she was close and she has nice skin. I tried to kiss her. My wife punched me in the face on Sunday. Twice.

I did not hit her back.

It’s over. And like, minus the whole hitting me thing I would be willing to work on this but, come on I got hit as a kid and HAD to take it. I’ll be damned if I sit around and take it as a grown-ass man! How can you move forward once violence has entered the picture? How can you love someone and have it occur to you to hit them? My wife doesn’t have to lift a finger in life and I have, at times, been intensly and fantastically upset about this but … hit her?! WTF? WHY would that ever occur to anyone to do to someone they want to care for and protect?!

I’m just boggled.

In the past two days I have spoken to more humans than I have spoken to in the past six months. Easily. I told one of these people that I felt like my hopes and dreams had been entirely destroyed and she pointed out that, logically, that’s only true if those dreams did in fact require this exact person. And in fact, the hopes and dreams were probably fantastically unrealistic because the person I was with didn’t really seem to live and focus on MY dreams, per se. I had trouble with her logic and found it comforting.

So, yeah, that’s where my life is. We’re going to counseling but there’s sort of two kinds of it – the getting better kind and the getting used to kind. We’ll be going to get used to the idea of not being together.

Yall know pretty much all of my business in this regard; you’ve known most if not every detail from my writings. Just figured you’d want to hear the next chapter.

Before it comes up – no, I’m not worried about my wife hitting the kid. She’s a good woman, without me. There’s something about being cared for the way I do that causes her to stop being so “good” and her anger doesn’t translate to the little one.

Besides, I’m pretty sure my kid can beat up my wife. No joke.

Oryx Tempel 02-03-2012 11:53 AM

It's definitely time to move on. That friend of yours was very wise; life dreams rarely include a specific person. Hell, anyone who's ever broken up with an SO or gotten a divorce knows that. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but once it's down, it's down. Your life dreams are about YOU and where YOU want to be. If you find someone cool enough to come along for the ride, and you both happen to be generally headed in the same direction, that's great. Great, but not necessary. :)

Merovigan 02-18-2012 01:21 PM

I’d expected to talk about her mom hitting me. She saw it, so there was really no way it would not come up. Right after she landed the punch I looked past her to see the kiddo’s eyes, wide, scared and more than a little shocked. “Did you see that?” I asked. “Yeah, Daddy…mommy hit you.”

My path was set then, though I’m not sure it would have, could have, been any different. I was out of the marriage if only to show the person I made that the right thing to do when someone hits you is to leave them immediately. There is no excuse for it.

We talked about it today, in the car. It’s my first full weekend with her.
“Are you ever going to live with mommy again?”
“No. Never.”
“Why not? Mommy is really sad and she is really sorry.”
“Because mommy’s dangerous for daddy. When someone hits you, ‘I’m sorry’ doesn’t matter anymore. They don’t mean it. They will do it again, it’s just a matter of time, and when it happens again it will be worse, and it will be your fault because they warned you already. They told you ‘I don’t love you’ with their hands and you chose to not listen.”

She cried, and I let her. Took about three minutes and the moment passed. Her next comment was “Wow, that person STILL has their Christmas tree up?” and I responded that maybe they were just REALLY early. She laughed.

Not sure what’s going on in there; all I know is that I must continue to teach my child how to live in this world, and one hard rule is that anyone who uses physical violence on you does NOT love you, no matter what they say.

Oryx Tempel 02-21-2012 01:22 PM

How's the living situation going?

Merovigan 02-21-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 420538)
How's the living situation going?

Apartment of my own. It's a nice place, good neighborhood and lotsa kids. Have most of what I need but for the life of me I can't remember to buy pot holders. I end up using forks for stuff in the oven a lot.

Joy Honey 02-21-2012 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 420552)
Apartment of my own. It's a nice place, good neighborhood and lotsa kids. Have most of what I need but for the life of me I can't remember to buy pot holders. I end up using forks for stuff in the oven a lot.

Does this mean we should nag you until you get pot holders?

Merovigan 02-21-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joy Honey (Post 420575)
Does this mean we should nag you until you get pot holders?

Virtual nagging is much better than the real kind!

JohnnyVann 02-21-2012 11:40 PM

I assume you know a hand towel folded a couple times works as well as an oven mitt?

Merovigan 02-21-2012 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyVann (Post 420589)
I assume you know a hand towel folded a couple times works as well as an oven mitt?

Don't enable my sloth!

And I thought my ghetto skills were on point but, nah, this had never occurred to me!

JohnnyVann 02-22-2012 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 420590)
Don't enable my sloth!

And I thought my ghetto skills were on point but, nah, this had never occurred to me!

Somehow I doubt I'll ever be able to interfere with your "inner ghetto sloth"

JohnnyVann 02-23-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 411886)
Then she got hit with the five-day suspension for WRECKING the classroom. I mean, kiddo tore that place up. Desks overturned, pencils and paper everywhere, bookshelves knocked over and not a single chair on its four legs. My wife said that when she walked in there was our kid in one corner of the room and three adults in the other corner. That’s my little badass.

I don't know why but this came to my mind and I decided to illustrate your post here...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_xfM48Y_3dH...mmerglau23.png

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-rq6OMFwius...s1600/xena.jpg

http://www.nndb.com/people/635/00005...an-of-arc.jpeg

Oryx Tempel 02-25-2012 12:57 AM

Actually, in professional kitchens, chefs don't use potholders per se. They'd just melt or get lost or burned or full of food. We did have an ENDLESS supply of dish towels, though. They're perfect for picking up hot pans, handles, plates, utensils, etc.

Merovigan 02-25-2012 05:37 PM

I got pot holders

:-)

Merovigan 02-25-2012 05:39 PM

[quote=JohnnyVann;420876]I don't know why but this came to my mind and I decided to illustrate your post here...


I'm telling you man, the kid has heart! And a nose for weakness.

IsaDaft Trollop 02-25-2012 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 421103)
Actually, in professional kitchens, chefs don't use potholders per se. They'd just melt or get lost or burned or full of food. We did have an ENDLESS supply of dish towels, though. They're perfect for picking up hot pans, handles, plates, utensils, etc.

My mom has very few potholders. (a few Christmas ones), She either uses dishtowels or cloth diapers (ya know - the really old fashioned ones. And no! they were never used on a babies butt - she bought them new)

JohnnyVann 02-25-2012 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421286)
I got pot holders

:-)


Web Link   |   Mobile Link




(With apoplgize to your dad)

JohnnyVann 02-25-2012 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421287)
I'm telling you man, the kid has heart! And a nose for weakness.

Dude, that last one is Joan of Arc! What do you want?

Merovigan 02-26-2012 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyVann (Post 421302)
Dude, that last one is Joan of Arc! What do you want?

I just meant that she seeks out weaknesses in others and exploits them.

Daddy's little girl!!

Oryx Tempel 02-26-2012 01:05 PM

You make her sound like a danged shark, dude.

Cocoanut Koala 02-26-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421384)
I just meant that she seeks out weaknesses in others and exploits them.

Daddy's little girl!!

Mero, you can't be saying that this is something you encourage in your little girl. You must be just blustering.

Bard Jameson 02-26-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala (Post 421396)
Mero, you can't be saying that this is something you encourage in your little girl. You must be just blustering.

Best setup I've heard in a long while for another long episode of Mero regaling us with tales of his tough-minded realism.

Merovigan 02-26-2012 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 421393)
You make her sound like a danged shark, dude.

She absolutely trashed her first grade room - I can't very well come to the conclusion that there isn't some form of animal hiding under that seven year old smile. She's human and capable of the full range of emotions. In that instance she perceived two very weak leaders attempting to thwart her will and she proved (yes, proved, sadly) that of the three of them, she had the most power. Not a shark but, maybe an alpha wolf.

You should beware of her - she is Aware. She's Here and Thinking About It. If she sees that you have weakness, she'll poke it. If she likes the reaction, she'll poke it harder.

She and I don't get into conflicts because I let the animal have its domain. I don't tell her what she has to eat. I did, when that was appropriate, but now it's not. I don't tell her exactly what she has to do, I tell her what has to get done and we discuss getting it done; what she can do, what she'd like to try, what she can't, etc. Control is critical in human development and I've been aware of what she can control and letting her have it.

She's a human ... and properly trained ... humans are fucking dangerous. So, yeah, maybe don't come play unless you're also well trained? Because the teachers at the head of that class were not; and the let my kid's inner animal out and she lost control and that's not fair, for her. She should have leaders capable of containing a seven year old child.

Merovigan 02-26-2012 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard Jameson (Post 421397)
Best setup I've heard in a long while for another long episode of Mero regaling us with tales of his tough-minded realism.

Yeah it's almost as if it's a thread in the diary about me. Maybe you could piss off? That'd be nice. Probably not gonna happen but, it would make me smile.

Cocoanut Koala 02-26-2012 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421414)
She absolutely trashed her first grade room - I can't very well come to the conclusion that there isn't some form of animal hiding under that seven year old smile. She's human and capable of the full range of emotions. In that instance she perceived two very weak leaders attempting to thwart her will and she proved (yes, proved, sadly) that of the three of them, she had the most power. Not a shark but, maybe an alpha wolf.

You should beware of her - she is Aware. She's Here and Thinking About It. If she sees that you have weakness, she'll poke it. If she likes the reaction, she'll poke it harder.

She and I don't get into conflicts because I let the animal have its domain. I don't tell her what she has to eat. I did, when that was appropriate, but now it's not. I don't tell her exactly what she has to do, I tell her what has to get done and we discuss getting it done; what she can do, what she'd like to try, what she can't, etc. Control is critical in human development and I've been aware of what she can control and letting her have it.

She's a human ... and properly trained ... humans are fucking dangerous. So, yeah, maybe don't come play unless you're also well trained? Because the teachers at the head of that class were not; and the let my kid's inner animal out and she lost control and that's not fair, for her. She should have leaders capable of containing a seven year old child.

Honestly.

I can't believe you are blaming her trashing that room on her teachers.

If I may be so bold - that episode was severe acting out, and abnormally so, and you need to pay extremely close attention, and perhaps get advice on how you should proceed.

Blaming it on her teachers not being alpha animals and who are "attempting to thwart her will" - Mero, that's sick. I know you have a lot going on in your life right now, but I think it would serve you well to stop elevating your daughter above the rest of the human race. Which only serves for you as avoidance of the issues.

You should be getting into some conflict with her, by the way - you're the parent. You really should be the alpha in that situation. You're the one who is experienced and knows things. To not give her the benefit of that is negligent.

Also, I sense you consider her this dangerous little plaything, whom only you understand and can handle, which makes you proud. You won't be able to handle her later on if this keeps up.

Jen 02-26-2012 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421414)
She absolutely trashed her first grade room - I can't very well come to the conclusion that there isn't some form of animal hiding under that seven year old smile. She's human and capable of the full range of emotions. In that instance she perceived two very weak leaders attempting to thwart her will and she proved (yes, proved, sadly) that of the three of them, she had the most power. Not a shark but, maybe an alpha wolf.

You should beware of her - she is Aware. She's Here and Thinking About It. If she sees that you have weakness, she'll poke it. If she likes the reaction, she'll poke it harder.

She and I don't get into conflicts because I let the animal have its domain. I don't tell her what she has to eat. I did, when that was appropriate, but now it's not. I don't tell her exactly what she has to do, I tell her what has to get done and we discuss getting it done; what she can do, what she'd like to try, what she can't, etc. Control is critical in human development and I've been aware of what she can control and letting her have it.

She's a human ... and properly trained ... humans are fucking dangerous. So, yeah, maybe don't come play unless you're also well trained? Because the teachers at the head of that class were not; and the let my kid's inner animal out and she lost control and that's not fair, for her. She should have leaders capable of containing a seven year old child.

Self-discipline is not a weakness, it is the foundation of all success.

Your daughter is a seven year old girl who was fortunate enough to act out in a situation where the adults in the room were forbidden by law to physically harm her.

If she ever behaved in that manner in the presence of less-disciplined or violent people, her delusions of power would very quickly be quashed, and the false lesson she learned about being "powerful" would put her into a dangerous position.

You are the "leader" who is supposed to be capable of teaching her that the planet not only doesn't revolve around her but will eat her alive if she doesn't know how to act.

Self-discipline includes the ability to behave in social situations, both for the good of the individual and for the good of the society.

Ayn Rand, Queen of Social Darwinism, predicated her delusional philosophies- LITERALLY- on a sociopathic murderer of a little girl*. Perpetuating those delusions in your personal philosophies does nothing to serve the long term interests of the child you are parenting.

*
Quote:

I'll get to where Rand picked up her silly superman blather later -- but first, let's meet William Hickman, the "genuinely beautiful soul" and inspiration to Ayn Rand. What you will read below -- the real story, details included, of what made Hickman a "superman" in Ayn Rand's eyes -- is extremely gory and upsetting, even if you're well acquainted with true crime stories -- so prepare yourself. But it's necessary to read this to understand Rand, and to repeat this over and over until all of America understands what made her tick, because Rand's influence over the very people leading the fight to kill social programs, and her ideological influence on so many powerful bankers, regulators and businessmen who brought the financial markets crashing down, means her ideas are affecting all of our lives in the worst way imaginable.
http://www.alternet.org/books/145819...rs?page=entire

Merovigan 02-26-2012 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala (Post 421424)
Honestly.

I can't believe you are blaming her trashing that room on her teachers.

If I may be so bold - that episode was severe acting out, and abnormally so, and you need to pay extremely close attention, and perhaps get advice on how you should proceed.

Blaming it on her teachers not being alpha animals and who are "attempting to thwart her will" - Mero, that's sick. I know you have a lot going on in your life right now, but I think it would serve you well to stop elevating your daughter above the rest of the human race. Which only serves for you as avoidance of the issues.

You should be getting into some conflict with her, by the way - you're the parent. You really should be the alpha in that situation. You're the one who is experienced and knows things. To not give her the benefit of that is negligent.

Also, I sense you consider her this dangerous little plaything, whom only you understand and can handle, which makes you proud. You won't be able to handle her later on if this keeps up.

If i wanted to raise a child with you, I'd say so. For serious.

Bard Jameson 02-26-2012 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421440)
If i wanted to raise a child with you, I'd say so. For serious.

By discussing how you are raising your daughter with us here in this venue, you are to some degree raising her "with" us - Coco included.

If you don't want that, then don't bring it up here.

For serious.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard Jameson (Post 421463)
By discussing how you are raising your daughter with us here in this venue, you are to some degree raising her "with" us - Coco included.

If you don't want that, then don't bring it up here.

For serious.

I still get to communicate that i dont care for HER advice, right? Or am I required to put equal credence on all advice? Tell me, Bard, because you know.

Do i have to pretend that other people, like the childless or people who raised failures, also have valid input? Help me, Bard, you are the arbiter.

And, finally, does this debt of earnestly listening and valuing every opinion stop at the domain name, or am i raising her with the whole internet.

Help me Bard, you are my only hope.

Oh...well you and evryone else on the internet.

FWIW, i do want to hear what Oryx has to say.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 06:48 AM

I wonder ... Maybe I could have comunicated better. What if I had ignored Coco's obvious drama post and instead chose to write my response directly to Oryx? Maybe then I wouldn't have heard from people whose opinions I respect in many things, but not parenting?

Ah shit ... That's exactly what I did. Bard, Mr. Arbiter, any more wisdom?

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 08:24 AM

Butthurt.

Lucifer Baphomet 02-27-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421492)
I still get to communicate that i dont care for HER advice, right? Or am I required to put equal credence on all advice? Tell me, Bard, because you know.

Do i have to pretend that other people, like the childless or people who raised failures, also have valid input? Help me, Bard, you are the arbiter.

And, finally, does this debt of earnestly listening and valuing every opinion stop at the domain name, or am i raising her with the whole internet.

Help me Bard, you are my only hope.

Oh...well you and evryone else on the internet.

FWIW, i do want to hear what Oryx has to say.

FWIW, Coco was bang on about your daughter.

Also, Coco ain't childless, and hasn't raised "failures".

Seriously, on what planet is trashing a school room acceptable?

And as Jen said.. the teachers hands are tied on how to respond to a situation like that.

In my day they could dish out corporal punishment, these days they look at a kid sideways, let alone touch one, they get fucking sued.

Would you have been happier if the teachers had called out the cops and got your kid charged for criminal damages?

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 10:11 AM

You know, I certainly have my opinion on Mero's parenting style, but I held back because I know that sharing it would be wasted on him.

What I do want to know is, are you going to be as proud of her when you go to visit her in prison? Because it doesn't take a genius to see the future here.

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 10:15 AM

Blaming a students reaction and behavior on the teacher is a cop out. It enables the student to continue their outburts and troubled behavior.

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 10:23 AM

Mero honestly, you support an earlier debate of mine.

You should be forced to home school. You have made choices about how you will raise your daughter. She has a sense of being in control now, you said yourself you do not control her. You taught her this mentality.

So you expaect a teacher to control her?

Your daugther sounds like a distraction to the rest of class and is effecting all the other childrens quality of education. I would be pissed if any of my kids were in your kids class. Because I teach my children, they are children, and must listen to those in autority above them. My kids understand they go to school for one reason, learning.

Lucifer Baphomet 02-27-2012 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins (Post 421500)
Mero honestly, you support an earlier debate of mine.

You should be forced to home school. You have made choices about how you will raise your daughter. She has a sense of being in control now, you said yourself you do not control her. You taught her this mentality.

So you expaect a teacher to control her?

Your daugther sounds like a distraction to the rest of class and is effecting all the other childrens quality of education. I would be pissed if any of my kids were in your kids class. Because I teach my children, they are children, and must listen to those in autority above them. My kids understand they go to school for one reason, learning.

But how could Mero home school his daughter?

His wife will likely get custody, and has issues that pretty much preclude her from home schooling her.

Mero likely won't get custody, and he works full time.

Home Schooling ain't gonna happen.

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet (Post 421501)
But how could Mero home school his daughter?

His wife will likely get custody, and has issues that pretty much preclude her from home schooling her.

Mero likely won't get custody, and he works full time.

Home Schooling ain't gonna happen.

Thats not a problem anyone else should have to solve. If a parent neglects to teach children to respect a classroom, whether you like or not, it is their problem to figure out how to get that child proper education.

Home School, Private Education and if they cant do either of those. Then the school system figures it out at his expense. A special tax for such cases.

Ayu Sura 02-27-2012 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421498)
You know, I certainly have my opinion on Mero's parenting style, but I held back because I know that sharing it would be wasted on him.

What I do want to know is, are you going to be as proud of her when you go to visit her in prison? Because it doesn't take a genius to see the future here.

I withheld commenting - because from the way Mero spoke of the incident - he believes he is doing the right thing in encouraging her "power" - he is proud that she destroyed a classroom and created fear in adults who he has placed in a position to educate her. Sure, he didn't hire those teachers but he picked the school and put her there.

Mero, if this is how you want your child to behave, then it's your responsibility to find her strong enough "alphas" who will actually be able to teach her something. Otherwise I don't see the point in sending her to that school.

I won't comment on whether her future will end in prison - I don't know everything about her, but let's just say I think she needs to learn when to bring her animal out and when not to, or she won't work too well with society in general.

I do have to say - your view on this explains a little the way you interact with the folks on this board.

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 10:51 AM

Explains a lot. Heck, explains everything.

Lucifer Baphomet 02-27-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins (Post 421502)
Thats not a problem anyone else should have to solve. If a parent neglects to teach children to respect a classroom, whether you like or not, it is their problem to figure out how to get that child proper education.

Home School, Private Education and if they cant do either of those. Then the school system figures it out at his expense. A special tax for such cases.


I agree with you in general principle.

However, I don't see Home schooling, or private tuition as tackling the problem.

And I don't agree on special taxes for parents with problem kids.

I DO think the school system should have provisions for kids who are difficult to handle, and there should be a social work assessment, and if deemed necessary court mandated classes for the parents on how to manage this (instead of them applauding and encouraging it).

Midi 02-27-2012 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins (Post 421502)
Thats not a problem anyone else should have to solve. If a parent neglects to teach children to respect a classroom, whether you like or not, it is their problem to figure out how to get that child proper education.

Home School, Private Education and if they cant do either of those. Then the school system figures it out at his expense. A special tax for such cases.

It depends on the attitude of the parent as well, I think. If they are working with the school and whoever else to help the child to behave appropriately then I wouldn't want to impose sanctions on the parent. They would need to attend classes and make a formal commitment though. If the parent doesn't see anything wrong with the child's behaviour, it's a different thing and a much harder struggle.


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