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-   -   The Comings and Goings of Mero (http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=15551)

Merovigan 02-27-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 421580)
Notice how when I say "mutual respect is anathema to Social Darwinism", your cogent response in defense of Social Darwinistic views amounts to angrily disrespecting me?

Notice how I want you to fuck off and go away and you're still here ... "wishing me well."?

It's no big to ignore Envoy - he's an idiot. You are not. Please, leave me the fuck alone in this thread from now on. I don't need, want, desire, find interesting, wonder about, think about, wish you would share, your input. I find you speaking, in general, a tolerable experience on most topics, at best. Here, you are a big "Fuck you, you shouldn't be raising your kid that way and your life is invalid because of your political views." It either seeps out of you or I see it where it isn't. Either way, there's, figuratively, nothing you can say I won't take negatively, Jen.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 421567)
Re: alpha wolves... she may certainly grow up to be an alpha wolf, but for now, she's a cub. Wolf pack adults love and care for their cubs, and protect them to maturity, but they also make certain that the cubs know that they are cubs, and not at the top of the pack.

As far as decision making processes that I mentioned above... my stepdaughter could wear butterfly wings and a dress over jeans if she wants to; I'm not going to tell her what to wear.

What she's not allowed to decide is whether or not she stays with Shamu or with us for a weekend. She's not capable of adult decisions like that, and it's not fair to expect her to make them.

I think I do a good job of letting her make her choices and giving her the ones she can handle. She's a new person every few months and not the old little cub she was. But I definitely think too much has come at her at once and that's why I don't think I've fought as hard for things as I could have. Better to leave as much unchanged for her as reasonable.

Jen 02-27-2012 04:05 PM

It's discouraging to think how many people are shocked by honesty and how few by deceit. --Noėl Coward

The trouble with most of us is that we would rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism. --Norman Vincent Peale

Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn't. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and excusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let me label you as they may. --Mark Twain

We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. --Martin Luther King, Jr.

To know what is right and not do it is the worst cowardice. --Confucius

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:06 PM

What I like about you is how you force yourself on others.

edit - it confirms my own arguments about you.

Joy Honey 02-27-2012 04:08 PM

Don't be hating, Mero. Jen's alpha! :yep:

JohnnyVann 02-27-2012 04:14 PM

Once again, not joining in on the debate but Mero: Be careful dismissing the opinions and advice of the parents on this board. Even if you disagree with them it would be wise to at least listen to them. They have experience, both success and failure in raising children.

Got a question about dogs? I'm your man. I'll leave the tiny bags of mostly water questions to the rest of the forum.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyVann (Post 421598)
Once again, not joining in on the debate but Mero: Be careful dismissing the opinions and advice of the parents on this board. Even if you disagree with them it would be wise to at least listen to them. They have experience, both success and failure in raising children.

Got a question about dogs? I'm your man. I'll leave the tiny bags of mostly water questions to the rest of the forum.

You can pull that once and not be in, but this is twice. Welcome.

I have no doubt that others have wisdom. I have doubts about their ability to communicate it and their knowledge of my situation, as well as doubts about the way "most" people raise their kids. I don't dismiss their advice out of hand, but I might take it in, wash it around a bit, spit it out and come away thinking - "You're an idiot!

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:21 PM

And once that "make a judgement about them, and their advice" step has been complete, it's complete. It's not like, "Oh, maybe THIS time that idiot has something useful to say!!"

Nope. Still just an idiot.

Io Zeno 02-27-2012 04:23 PM

Mero, I've been reluctant to comment on any of this but I will chime in here.

I may not have raised a kid that had issues with school but I was one, in spades.

It was because of the reason nearly all kids have issues at school: problems at home. Problems that came out in school. Problems, Mero, that I paid for. Not my mom, not my family, ME. Because they weren't addressed.

I know you want your daughter to be successful at life, to have whatever she wants. To be the Alpha Wolf of her own life. Having control over yourself is the first sign of any Mastery. She feels helpless, as I did, and is lashing out. SHE will pay for this Mero, with problems at school, possibly affecting her future. I know this is the last thing you want, so please think about this. It's NOT ABOUT YOU.

Kick Frenzy 02-27-2012 04:26 PM

http://calitreview.com/wp-content/up...s04hitgirl.jpg

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:30 PM

oh look hai people I like!

Thanks.

Kick Frenzy 02-27-2012 04:35 PM

Hey there Mero.

Sounds to me like the situation was handled well by you (telling her it's wrong, the apology letter from her, etc.), but that you are proud of the fucking up she accomplished.

Like, it may not be something you would pat her on the head for, but inside it's like... my 7 year old kid fucked up a whole fucking classroom! *Tim Allen man-grunt*

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno (Post 421603)
Mero, I've been reluctant to comment on any of this but I will chime in here.

I may not have raised a kid that had issues with school but I was one, in spades.

It was because of the reason nearly all kids have issues at school: problems at home. Problems that came out in school. Problems, Mero, that I paid for. Not my mom, not my family, ME. Because they weren't addressed.

I know you want your daughter to be successful at life, to have whatever she wants. To be the Alpha Wolf of her own life. Having control over yourself is the first sign of any Mastery. She feels helpless, as I did, and is lashing out. SHE will pay for this Mero, with problems at school, possibly affecting her future. I know this is the last thing you want, so please think about this. It's NOT ABOUT YOU.

To a lot of degree I know that. She doesn't have a mom in jail because I know that it's not all about me.

But I still have actions to take and ... sometimes I'll be fucked if I know which is right. People who haven't been say "Counseling!!!" and ok, did that. Know the issue. Kinda sorta know why the issue exists.

But the two people who fucking created the issue are still the only two to fix it and, once a-fucking-gain I'm stuck with "But ... she's kinda batshit crazy!!" I could have custody. The ex could be in jail. I could own the house. But can you fucking IMAGINE the hell that would have caused the little one? The anxiety, the stress ...

I hate how everyone vomits the word counseling whenever an emotional issue comes up, as if simply being aware of it and going is a solution. It takes action - the one thing that people in emotional turmoil are want to do.

/sigh

thanks.

Io Zeno 02-27-2012 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421609)
To a lot of degree I know that. She doesn't have a mom in jail because I know that it's not all about me.

But I still have actions to take and ... sometimes I'll be fucked if I know which is right. People who haven't been say "Counseling!!!" and ok, did that. Know the issue. Kinda sorta know why the issue exists.

But the two people who fucking created the issue are still the only two to fix it and, once a-fucking-gain I'm stuck with "But ... she's kinda batshit crazy!!" I could have custody. The ex could be in jail. I could own the house. But can you fucking IMAGINE the hell that would have caused the little one? The anxiety, the stress ...

I hate how everyone vomits the word counseling whenever an emotional issue comes up, as if simply being aware of it and going is a solution. It takes action - the one thing that people in emotional turmoil are want to do.

/sigh

thanks.

I think, right now, what she needs most is reassurance, that she is safe, that you both love her, that no matter what happens she will be taken care of. It sounds like she feels angry and powerless because.... well she is. She can't control either of you but she is dependent on both of you, emotionally. Make her feel secure right now. Try to find out what it is that is making her anxious and try to relieve that anxiety.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Io Zeno (Post 421611)
I think, right now, what she needs most is reassurance, that she is safe, that you both love her, that no matter what happens she will be taken care of. It sounds like she feels angry and powerless because.... well she is. She can't control either of you but she is dependent on both of you, emotionally. Make her feel secure right now. Try to find out what it is that is making her anxious and try to relieve that anxiety.


Well, this actual outburst was months ago at this point. Her behavior recently has been fine, as far as I know. And I would totally know because out of thirty nights in a month I get to see her four. Yeah, that's being a dad as best you can.

Io Zeno 02-27-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421612)
Well, this actual outburst was months ago at this point. Her behavior recently has been fine, as far as I know. And I would totally know because out of thirty nights in a month I get to see her four. Yeah, that's being a dad as best you can.

Hon, all you can do is the best you can. The situation right now is bad for all of you but she is obviously going to be in the most emotional turmoil over it. Just let her know you will always be there for her, you are always her dad and you love her.

Good Luck. :hug:

Merovigan 02-27-2012 05:11 PM

http://omg.yahoo.com/news/actress-lu...230240051.html

Funny tie in. Xena, of earlier in this thread fame, was just arrested for protesting the oil drilling.

God, what an awful, terrible parent I'd be if my kid got locked up for not respecting authority, am I right Asher? Golly, what terrible people those who stand up against injustice are!

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 05:18 PM

Because a teacher in a classroom is exactly the same as a roughneck on an oil rig, and Lucy "tore up" the rig. Exactly the same, Skippy.

Oryx Tempel 02-27-2012 05:29 PM

Honestly, I would try to get custody and the house. Screw the wife.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421615)
Because a teacher in a classroom is exactly the same as a roughneck on an oil rig, and Lucy "tore up" the rig. Exactly the same, Skippy.

Just poking at ya, dick.

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 05:53 PM

Back atcha.

Trout 02-27-2012 05:58 PM

I'm glad you put that comma in there.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout (Post 421623)
I'm glad you put that comma in there.

I honestly laughed out loud. Thank you!

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 06:25 PM

Punctuation saves lives.

https://www.vappingo.com/word-blog/w...-lives-two.png

Merovigan 03-02-2012 04:46 PM

Apparently, it’s an emotions day. I dislike emotions day.

My boss got fired. Well, that’s not 100% accurate. People at this level don’t get fired. They get “Removed from the contract” and land at cushy jobs back at headquarters. I’m sitting here, his office is right behind mine, and I know that all the noise is him packing up. It’s all over. I don’t work with him anymore. Four years of this, and now, I get to listen to him pack his desk and leave. I feel about this. It’s not a good feeling. I’m not allowed to feel at work, certainly not show it. But, I feel nonetheless.

He’ll be replaced, not by me. God, can you imagine?! No, I’m not at that level yet. His replacement is the guy who hired me. He’s the guy who depended upon me when he was brought onto the contract two years ago (he hired me while he worked at corporate). He is going to be in charge of the whole contract and when we talked about “what now” he looked me square in the eye and said “[Mero] your side of the contract is running fine, I know nothing about it, and don’t really want to learn. YOU deal with it. And while you’re dealing with that, you’ll also be supporting me on my side of the contract because I need the help, and I trust you to work my tasks.” It’s a good compliment. I appreciated it. He asked how many vacancies I had and just smiled and shook his head when I said none. He has several key positions to fill.

I just remembered – this new boss is the same guy who was really stressed one day at work. He stopped being able to see so well. His speech got slurred and he went home. Then he went to the hospital because he was having a stroke. This job is … stressful.

I met with the Executive Team today. They didn’t want me to come all the way down only to go back again, so I called in to do my presentation. I should have been nervous but that would require having enough time to imagine all the ways I would fuck up. I didn’t (imagine myself fucking nor actually fuck up) and I left the team with some good thoughts and a promise to come back with answers to their questions next week. It was a good meeting; people seemed pleased with me.


I saw the South African chick on the metro again. She sits there with her backpack on the chair next to her. A guy walks up and just stands there staring at her. She looks up and stares back. He’s like “Are you not going to move your bag?!” and she says no. “How rude!!!” he fumes. Yes, she acknowledges her rude behavior. And doesn’t move her bag. Is clinging to it, actually, as if the man is going to yank it from the seat. “I have never been treated so rudely!” He exclaims and she responds “That’s because you are accustomed to your white male privileged life.” He looked very confused.

I hadn’t noticed her before the commotion and I walked up. “Hey” I said, smiled and nodded. She’d started off looking like an animal backed into a corner but she noticed who I was and everything changed. Her eyes soften to be pretty, a smile sprung to her face and, most important, she moved her bag onto her lap. We spent the ride home talking about Michael Reich’s paper title “The Economics of Racism” and about the tyranny of the family vs. the tyranny of the state. She’s an interesting woman … I’ll have to ask for her number next time. Normal people do that … right?

It just occurred to me – I am the most senior manager on site now. Cool!

Oryx Tempel 03-02-2012 04:52 PM

Nobody asks for phone numbers anymore. Ask for her e-mail address. That way when you e-mail to ask her out to coffee, she won't feel on the spot and will have time to compose a decent response.

JohnnyVann 03-02-2012 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 422562)
Nobody asks for phone numbers anymore. Ask for her e-mail address. That way when you e-mail to ask her out to coffee, she won't feel on the spot and will have time to compose a decent response.

/takes notes

Elora Lunasea 03-02-2012 05:24 PM

I've been reading all this and not saying anything because I don't have much to input.

However.

ASK FOR HER NUMBER.

Old fashioned, is best. Egads if some guy asked me for my email address I'd walk away like "WTF?" and tell all my girlfriends about the inept socially backward guy I met on the train :P

If she has enough sense of herself and isn't interested, she'll be able to articulate that just fine.

Trout 03-02-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elora Lunasea (Post 422573)
I've been reading all this and not saying anything because I don't have much to input.

However.

ASK FOR HER NUMBER.

Old fashioned, is best. Egads if some guy asked me for my email address I'd walk away like "WTF?" and tell all my girlfriends about the inept socially backward guy I met on the train :P

If she has enough sense of herself and isn't interested, she'll be able to articulate that just fine.

Get her work phone number, then find a way to get her address without her knowing about it. Then, while she's at work, break into her house and call her at work from her home phone, so the caller ID will show that you went to all that extra effort.

Trust me, chicks appreciate a guy who goes the extra mile like that.

Merovigan 03-02-2012 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trout (Post 422578)
Get her work phone number, then find a way to get her address without her knowing about it. Then, while she's at work, break into her house and call her at work from her home phone, so the caller ID will show that you went to all that extra effort.

Trust me, chicks appreciate a guy who goes the extra mile like that.

Thanks for making this creepy.

Jorus 03-02-2012 08:24 PM

Next time you see her, pee on her to denote dominance and your position as an alpha.

It will get her wet.

JohnnyVann 03-02-2012 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 422582)
Thanks for making this creepy.

Welcome to SCmkII! Are you new here?

Lucifer Baphomet 03-02-2012 11:22 PM

Mero has died

Mero had risen

Mero will come again (if the south african chick works out)

Trout 03-03-2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 422582)
Thanks for making this creepy.

You're welcome.

I left out the part where you should make sure that when the cops show up, you're wearing a pair of her panties on your head. the ass side goes over your face.

Anyway, she'll totally think that's sexy.

Oryx Tempel 03-03-2012 01:28 PM

Now that I think about it, Elora's right. A phone number is better. A girl knows that it takes balls to pick up the phone and ask her out point blank. An e-mail might be seen as sort of a wuss move.

JohnnyVann 03-03-2012 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 422709)
Now that I think about it, Elora's right. A phone number is better. A girl knows that it takes balls to pick up the phone and ask her out point blank. An e-mail might be seen as sort of a wuss move.

Why you hate wusses? :fist:

Merovigan 03-14-2012 04:06 PM

I was at a friend’s house, building a table. Because I’m Jesus like that. We finish and I’m disassembling it in order to fit the thing in my car. My hands are full. I call out to the little one. “Hey, sorry to bother you but can you get me a plastic bag? My hands are full and I need to dump what I’m holding into something.” The little one calls back “Sure thing” and I have my bag in short order. I thank her for her time, and on we move.

My friend was watching us and seemed perplexed.

“You … you really seemed to be appreciative of something that everyone else I know takes for granted. Every woman I interact with (yes, he said woman, no, I’m not making some misogynistic point) issues order to their kid as if the kid was an extension of themselves. And often it’s for stuff they themselves could do, as if the kid’s some sort of personal gopher.” I shrugged it off – I was raised to not impose upon people and to be appreciative when you do. It’s a lot of work taking care of other people and when someone takes care of you you’d better fucking make sure you know they appreciate it …right?! That’s just decency.

Then we go upstairs where a woman is faithfully preparing us dinner. I’m remembering my friend’s comment when his woman asks her 15 year old to set the table. No “Please,” no “Thank you” nothing – just the expectation that he should stop whatever he was doing (it wasn’t important, was it?) and serve her. He does, and he’s a little angry about it. He was angrier the next time and by the third time she’d asked him for something (putting out napkins?) he was mumbling. I got up and helped him with the work; I felt bad for him. He didn’t sign up to make everyone dinner; she did. Unasked, even – she offered. She should have done all the work, or at the very least brought the kid in on it so he felt like part of the team instead of some gopher-slave.

I think subtle interactions like this have more influence upon us and our relationships than we know. I don’t get attitude from my kid because I don’t treat her like she’s my little bitch to do with as I please. I know that when she’s not working on the same thing as me she’s probably working on something that is important to her. Or at least interesting. And if I interrupt that, I better be doing it for a good reason; not just because I’m too lazy to make the table AND cook the food. And in all cases; when someone is good to you the right response is to be good back. The wrong response is to treat this kindness as if it is part and parcel of the relationship.

I take this idea to an extreme and I don’t really know how to reign it in. I know that. A chick made me dinner the other night (No, not the South African) and I refused to ask for the fork and napkin I needed – why?! I can get it. My legs are not broken. She’d done all this work and I felt like an ingrate being like “Oh hey, thanks, but you’re not done yet.”

I got up. But she eyed me. “What do you need?” she asked. “Uh… I was gonna get a fork and napkin.” She walked me back to the couch, and brought me what I needed.

I wasn’t sure how to take that but, I said thanks.

Finally, I ran into the South African again today and she was in a bad mood. I got her laughing and eventually asked for her info. I asked for the phone number and got the card and a “Do you have a card?” I didn’t. I gave her my name/number and she looked at me funny. “Only a first name?!” I laughed and texted her my last so she could google me and see the speeches I’ve given. It was another nice conversation but … now I get to deal with her in a situation that is not a twenty minute ride on a crowded metro car. I look forward to that.

Life’s good. But, I still miss my kid. I can't even think about it; so, I think about everything else.

Oryx Tempel 03-14-2012 06:17 PM

Re: table-setting kid: You don't know that setting the table isn't the kid's assigned chore, do you? For example, Trout and I do the cooking, and the kids know that their parts in the meal are setting the table (both of them), clearing the table (the little one), and managing the dishwasher (the big one). We do ask them, but if they ignore us or do it haphazardly, we aren't slow to make it an order, rather than a polite request. Most of the time, they're cool with their jobs; other times, they'll slide off to watch TV, and totally blow off their jobs in which case, yeah, we have to speak sternly, and yeah, they get a little sullen.

Personally, setting the table includes: placemats, plates, napkins, silverware, and glasses (and trivets, if needed). The kids know this. If we have to tell them step by step ("Now, napkins!") we'll get testy because they're not concentrating on their chore, especially because they've done it hundreds of times and shouldn't need to be told.

I'm just pointing out that there might be a lot more going on with that kid and the table-setting job than you necessarily can see from your POV.

Jen 03-14-2012 07:46 PM

Particularly the age of 15 is a not-so-fond memory of my son that I hesitate to revisit.

After several attempts at getting him to help with the dishes one afternoon [he was playing Sonic], I went up to him where he lay sprawled on the sofa in his army boots, and tapped his boot with my bare foot.

"Get up and do the dang dishes!" said I.

"YOU KICKED MY FOOT!!" said he.

There was a meltdown. It wasn't me.

I don't think he ever did do the dishes that night...

Oryx Tempel 03-14-2012 09:36 PM

LOL, I thought my parents were quite possibly the most insensitive, inhumane, and ignorant human beings on the planet when I was fifteen. I would have grumped about anything they asked me to do, except that I knew I would be grounded for weeks if I had.


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