Second Citizen MK II

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-   -   The Comings and Goings of Mero (http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/showthread.php?t=15551)

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:18 AM

No Beau, I do not expect a teacher to take control of her. What I expect is for a teacher to lead her in education and that does work when it is done correctly. It takes more work for my kid and requires someone with more than a few years of experience. Being male helps, also, because she seems to follow men better than women. They had been using a daily chart, or trying to use one – they didn’t fill it out most days. Still, it worked for awhile and she was having a lot more good days. Then they stopped. Guess I shouldn’t blame the teachers for failing to follow the plan we’d devised. Damned kid … making the adults not do what they said they would do.

She is totally a distraction and we did take her out to home-school her this year.

I don’t care if you’re pissed or not and I don’t care if the other parents are pissed either. Fuck them. Go write a letter.

Your kids will probably end up like you and while I’m sure that’s good for you, I’m also sure you can see how that’s not my goal. That seems obvious, right? We’re different, you and I – whom do you think I think is better? Whom do I prefer? Whom would make a better role model for my kid?

I don’t think this will be a problem long term and going forward. As it turns out, she was holding her pencil the wrong way and many of her outbursts came during a writing assignment. We’ve been working on that and her self-confidence and hopefully she won’t be a distraction for the kids and can instead be the awesome and helpful person she should be in an educational environment.

Golly … all because she was holding a pencil wrong. I wonder who was responsible for figuring that out. Because it was us, and we paid a lot of money and spent a lot of time on it. But, someone else taught her to hold a pencil and spent hours and hours with her every day watching her use it to learn to write letters (this wasn’t an issue at home.) Who was that …

I’d see this more seriously if anything like it had happened in any other setting, but it hasn’t.

Oh, as for Coco, yes she has kids, no they are not losers, but she tends to jump into a thread with very definite opinions and stances which she then modifies as more details come out and I just can’t be bothered, on this topic, since when all is said and done we probably just don’t agree on some very basic child-rearing principles like “Children should be seen, heard, respects, and included.”

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midi (Post 421506)
They would need to attend classes and make a formal commitment though. If the parent doesn't see anything wrong with the child's behaviour, it's a different thing and a much harder struggle.

We met with seven people of various training. TWO of them had met my daughter before the meeting. One was her teacher, the other stopped in for five minutes to talk with her.

Maybe if the school made a commitment, things would get better?

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421508)
Golly … all because she was holding a pencil wrong.

No, this is where you are wrong. It's all because she was taught it was OK to disprect authority, to "sniff out weakness" and to act like an - as you put it - animal.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421498)
What I do want to know is, are you going to be as proud of her when you go to visit her in prison? Because it doesn't take a genius to see the future here.

It doesn't and one hasn't tried yet.

But you're here so ... what crime will my daughter commit?

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421510)
No, this is where you are wrong. It's all because she was taught it was OK to disprect authority, to "sniff out weakness" and to act like an - as you put it - animal.

It is ok to disrespect authority.

It's necessary to sniff out weakness.

Oh right, you're a liberal! These things are evil and wrong and bad, just like revolt and fighting for what's yours. Yours is nothing, the collective is god, all hail the group!!!

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:28 AM

Maybe I should teach her to not say No to boys either? She's society's Vessel, right?

How do you think independent people get made, women in particular? Should I have taught her that everyone in power should be respected simply because they are in power?

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:29 AM

You stuck it out there Asher - what's my kid going to go to prison for?

Jen 02-27-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucifer Baphomet (Post 421505)

I DO think the school system should have provisions for kids who are difficult to handle, and there should be a social work assessment,

They do- it's called a PINS school [aka "lockdown school"]. You know, the kind of places where I used to work, being an "alpha" for all those kids who terrified the teachers.

eta: those kids acted out because they were highly intelligent, living in an insane environment [many were the children of drug dealers, prostitutes, porn producers, parents in prison, etc- you get my drift]. They had to function as small adults in Flatbush and the Bronx, where people were being shot up and dying of drug overdoses, and then they got put into schools with white middle class teachers that treated them as subhumans because their reading skills were lower than average. Of course they acted out. My job was to teach them how to function in a completely alien culture in order to succeed and ultimately escape the lockdown school [and over the longer term, their social traps].

eta2: Those children were sent there at the age of 12, and their next option, if they failed to get it together, was jail. Juvenile detention up to the age of 16, jail thereafter. And their options were slim at best.


And just because, like Mero or anybody else, I don't appreciate people criticizing my children, I wanted to say that both are quite successful in every sense of the word. Geoff's a card-carrying member of the Actor's Guild and up for promotion to a 50+k managerial job at the blood bank after getting his degree, couch-surfing across the country on his motorcycle for a year, finding an apartment in NYC, and helping his recently widowed uncle survive a debilitating disease and the failure of his business in the wake of 08. Sara's making money hand-over-fist online [literally can't keep up w/ her commissions], and up for Canadian citizenship soon, and she and her IT department head hubby are very happy and planning to travel in Europe in the next couple of years.

Both of them were extremely difficult to raise, btw, because they're both highly intelligent and don't tolerate bullshit well. I was never able to lie to them about anything. And neither of them would ever have dared to behave like animals because self-discipline was one of the keys to the mutual respect in our home.

And yes, it was a mutual thing, something that I learned from my wise woman grandma- children learn how to respect by receiving it from others and observing it in use. It is key to raising an intelligent child. It is also completely anathema to social darwinism.

Cocoanut Koala 02-27-2012 11:31 AM

The notion that my kids weren't allowed to be seen, heard, respected, and included . . . is hilarious. They would laugh their heads off at that!

But no, they weren't allowed to disrespect their teachers. (Like they could us.)

And I'll tell you why: What do you want for your child? You want their teachers to like them, not dislike them or consider them a handful they wish weren't in their class.

And why? Because you want what's best for them.

Life is smoother for them all around when they don't go around making problems for everyone.

If you teach them (at seven!!!) that they should make their own decisions about who deserves respect and who doesn't, don't be surprised if they decide that anybody telling them what to do doesn't deserve it.

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421512)
It is ok to disrespect authority.

It depends on how you go about it. There's a smart way, and there's a stupid way. You've taught her now that going about it in a way that gets her suspended from school is approved of by you. Great going! This is why I asked if you're going to be just as proud when she lands in prison, because her newfound knowledge that it's jolly good fun to sneer at authority will get her into trouble. Not everyone is going to be as indulgent as daddy is.

Quote:

It's necessary to sniff out weakness.
In a teacher? Why?

Quote:

Oh right, you're a liberal! These things are evil and wrong and bad, just like revolt and fighting for what's yours. Yours is nothing, the collective is god, all hail the group!!!
Flail away!

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421514)
You stuck it out there Asher - what's my kid going to go to prison for?

If she were 10 years older? For exactly what she did that day.

Ayu Sura 02-27-2012 11:34 AM

Sniff out weakness?

Okay.

So that what... she can figure out who she can push around? Or to figure out who needs gentle handling?

One of those options means creating a bully.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421517)
It depends on how you go about it. There's a smart way, and there's a stupid way. You've taught her now that going about it in a way that gets her suspended from school is approved of by you. Great going! This is why I asked if you're going to be just as proud when she lands in prison, because her newfound knowledge that it's jolly good fun to sneer at authority will get her into trouble. Not everyone is going to be as indulgent as daddy is.

Some people will be more, some less. Most want be trying to force her to do something she doesn't want to do. Think on that - what's the right response for doing something that isn't comofortable (writing with a pencil the wrong way hurts.) She really didn't want to and she fought hard against what she perceived as wrong. I'm proud, and I doubt it will translate into major problems later. That you do is simply another reason I look down on you.



Quote:

In a teacher? Why?
Practice.


Quote:

Flail away!
I just don't like you, bro. I'd ignore you but you're not an idiot and are occasionally useful so that would do me harm. Still. I don't like you.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayu Sura (Post 421519)
Sniff out weakness?

Okay.

So that what... she can figure out who she can push around? Or to figure out who needs gentle handling?

One of those options means creating a bully.

Avoidance and being kind to those who need it. She's a really nice kid to her peers.

Cocoanut Koala 02-27-2012 11:38 AM

I also want to say, Mero, that I know you love your child more than life itself. And that she is a wonderful, intelligent, precious little bundle.

I, and the others here, are just trying to get you to look at it in another way, a way that is best for her.

She is too young to make her own decisions on which teachers to respect, and which not to.

As someone said, you have appointed those teachers as in parento locus (sp?) and as such, as your appointees, they deserve respect and good behavior from the child.

And really, respecting has little to do with it. As Jen said, self-control is much more to the point. One doesn't have to respect or like a teacher in order to behave.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421518)
If she were 10 years older? For exactly what she did that day.

Doh, misread. So, prison at 17 then. For tossing a room. Yeah I'm betting that won't happen - she'd have to stay as smart as a seven year old and her acting out will be much more subtle by then.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala (Post 421522)
And really, respecting has little to do with it. As Jen said, self-control is much more to the point. One doesn't have to respect or like a teacher in order to behave.

They do when they are being asked to do something that hurts. For whatever reason, either self-esteem or physical, it became clear that writing was hurting the little one and no one really bothered to care about that. How can I ask her to respect THAT system? Why even put her in it? So, we didn't. But the ex is fighting home-schooling (didn't want to do it even when before the big fight) and, well if we could work shit out we probably wouldn't be where we are.

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421520)
That you do is simply another reason I look down on you.


Quote:

I just don't like you, bro. I'd ignore you but you're not an idiot and are occasionally useful so that would do me harm. Still. I don't like you.
Hah, mutual there. I find you somewhat fascinating from a psychological point of view. Sometimes I pity you, sometimes I pity those around you more.

By the way, I'm also amused by the way you come to this board looking for empathy, then turn around and call us weaklings for being empathetic. Doesn't that give you a moment's pause? Also, that's why I'm not inclined to show you much.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asher Bertrand (Post 421525)
Hah, mutual there. I find you somewhat fascinating from a psychological point of view. Sometimes I pity you, sometimes I pity those around you more.

By the way, I'm also amused by the way you come to this board looking for empathy, then turn around and call us weaklings for being empathetic. Doesn't that give you a moment's pause? Also, that's why I'm not inclined to show you much.

Nah, I get empathy from most and have made great connections. I take it like this: The world is mostly full of people beneath you and if you let them drag you down you're screwed. But you can't just not interact with the world because there are people above you that you need to learn from, so, I take assholes like you and Envoy with the people who really do care about me and are willing to communicate it usefully.

Just because I'm looking for empathy doesn't mean I will only get what I'm looking for.

Cocoanut Koala 02-27-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421524)
They do when they are being asked to do something that hurts. For whatever reason, either self-esteem or physical, it became clear that writing was hurting the little one and no one really bothered to care about that. How can I ask her to respect THAT system? Why even put her in it? So, we didn't. But the ex is fighting home-schooling (didn't want to do it even when before the big fight) and, well if we could work shit out we probably wouldn't be where we are.

You need to teach her that the proper response to that situation isn't trashing a room.

If the ex is fighting home-schooling, then home-schooling is clearly not an option. That means it would not be a good choice for your child.

You need to get your daughter to understand how she must behave at school. If holding a pencil wrong is hurting her, she should refuse to hold the pencil that way, and explain why. Period.

And if that doesn't work, she should come to you after school, for you to resolve the issue (pleasantly) with the teachers.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cocoanut Koala (Post 421527)
You need to teach her that the proper response to that situation isn't trashing a room.

She knew it then and knows it now. We said that. But it escalated. It started small and got big because ... people allowed that to happen. At some point taking her out of the room was the right step. Instead, all the other kids were taken out.

Quote:

You need to get your daughter to understand how she must behave at school. If holding a pencil wrong is hurting her, she should refuse to hold the pencil that way, and explain why. Period.
Yeah, emotional control is important to learn. At some point you didn't have it either.

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421513)
Maybe I should teach her to not say No to boys either? She's society's Vessel, right?

How do you think independent people get made, women in particular? Should I have taught her that everyone in power should be respected simply because they are in power?

Independently thinking, and social responsibility are two different things. My oldest daughters now, does not see eye to eye with me on most issues. For instance she claims to be atheist. She is also a Yankees fan. I don't know which one bothers me most. She is also pretty well behaved in school, sometimes a bit too social but she is always respectful to teachers.

Your attitude says alot, "Fuck em".

My son has slight autism. It is stressful. We decline medication because we think it can be fixed with the right structure in his life. I pay a lot of money out of pocket for extra help outside of school. We have to give him a different kind of attention my other children do not require. He also gets support in school.

I am sure he is a distraction on some days, but we are willing to work with the teacher. We understand he is 1 of 22 other children. We also fought the system for help. There is an aide in the class now. She helps the teacher with all the children. He also gets special writing and reading help. This took alot of research, learning our rights and making the BOE provide what was needed.

Last thing I would say is "Fuck em, it's their problem when he is there"

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421529)
She knew it then and knows it now. We said that. But it escalated. It started small and got big because ... people allowed that to happen. At some point taking her out of the room was the right step. Instead, all the other kids were taken out.


Yeah, emotional control is important to learn. At some point you didn't have it either.

Mero. You do have a point, once something like that starts, having the child step outside and take a break from the situation would have been wise of the teacher.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 11:54 AM

Heck, we even made her write an apology letter. We were clear with her it was wrong. But I'm still proud as hell to not have raised a victim. Better a criminal than that, if those are my options - criminals get away with it sometimes!

But, clearly there's a middle ground and I believe we are doing our best to walk it. Time will tell - to this day this is the only major acting out event we've seen anywhere. And even the minors ones all took place at this one school.

But right right, can't blame the school. So ... what happens if she changes schools and it's all ok? Still can't blame the situation? Just checking - Coco, your thoughts?

Jen 02-27-2012 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins (Post 421531)
IMy oldest daughters now, does not see eye to eye with me on most issues. For instance she claims to be atheist. She is also a Yankees fan. I don't know which one bothers me most.

/sigged :roflmao:

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 11:59 AM

What you are saying is your daughter is responsible for her action but the teacher should have handled a situation better?

I have been in that situation as well. I am sorry if I assumed anything Mero that was not true about your parenting.

Bard Jameson 02-27-2012 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bard Jameson (Post 421397)
Best setup I've heard in a long while for another long episode of Mero regaling us with tales of his tough-minded realism.

Q.E.D.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beau Perkins (Post 421531)
Last thing I would say is "Fuck em, it's their problem when he is there"

Well good! Then we're in the same place on this - that was the LAST thing we said. We went for help, we met with them. We set up plans they didn't follow. She had a TA assigned.

"Fuck Them" was all we had left, at that point. I'd asked for the kid to be home schooled before that and was told no. Despite the fact that the ex has a fucking MASTERS degree in childhood education. Despite the fact that she was sitting at home and not working. Homeschool - not an option.

Well I only make $90k. Private school isn't an option either.

So, yeah, guess we'll just slap a "troubled" label on the little one and shuffle her off to wherever.

/sigh

Cocoanut Koala 02-27-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421533)
Heck, we even made her write an apology letter. We were clear with her it was wrong. But I'm still proud as hell to not have raised a victim. Better a criminal than that, if those are my options - criminals get away with it sometimes!

But, clearly there's a middle ground and I believe we are doing our best to walk it. Time will tell - to this day this is the only major acting out event we've seen anywhere. And even the minors ones all took place at this one school.

But right right, can't blame the school. So ... what happens if she changes schools and it's all ok? Still can't blame the situation? Just checking - Coco, your thoughts?

First: I think what you are saying is your child has "spunk." (To paraphrase Mr. Grant.)

I had a lot of experience with other people's kids (as a teaching assistant in a public elementary school for a year, and as a kids' dance teacher for a lot of years) and always thought of it as kids who were "dud kids" and kids who weren't dud kids.

I know that's kind of a horrible thing to say. But what I mean is some kids are just sort of personalty-less. Very few, but indeed some are.

I imagine with their parents, they aren't, because their parents know their entire multi-faceted insides.

But to me - dud kids. So when my kids acted up (which was frequently!), I knew they at least weren't dud kids.

They were entertaining kids! They were kids who posed a challenge, and what intelligent parent doesn't like a challenge! I LOVE a kid with personality!

My own kids had lots of personality, the older one more than the younger. The older one was also the one who had more difficulties at school.

So it's a challenge. Of course, you don't want to stifle your kids natural exuberance. On the other hand, you need to make sure that others don't have to . . . er, suffer its consequences.

That was just a sort of aside.

Beau Perkins 02-27-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421537)
Well good! Then we're in the same place on this - that was the LAST thing we said. We went for help, we met with them. We set up plans they didn't follow. She had a TA assigned.

"Fuck Them" was all we had left, at that point. I'd asked for the kid to be home schooled before that and was told no. Despite the fact that the ex has a fucking MASTERS degree in childhood education. Despite the fact that she was sitting at home and not working. Homeschool - not an option.

Well I only make $90k. Private school isn't an option either.

So, yeah, guess we'll just slap a "troubled" label on the little one and shuffle her off to wherever.

/sigh

Mero, honestly you may want to talk with my wife. She fought our school system to take action. She learned so much she is now doing it for a living. She works for Head Start in our town specializing in kids with special needs. I do not know your daughters whole situation but I bet she can give you some good advice.

JohnnyVann 02-27-2012 12:10 PM

I don't want to get involved in this fight, not the least because I've never had kids myself so I'm stuck in the Ivory Tower observatory.

But Mero, it's ok to question authority. Even ok to fight authority sometimes. However, it's not always smart to fight authority, even when you are right. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor

Cocoanut Koala 02-27-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421533)
Heck, we even made her write an apology letter. We were clear with her it was wrong. But I'm still proud as hell to not have raised a victim. Better a criminal than that, if those are my options - criminals get away with it sometimes!

But, clearly there's a middle ground and I believe we are doing our best to walk it. Time will tell - to this day this is the only major acting out event we've seen anywhere. And even the minors ones all took place at this one school.

But right right, can't blame the school. So ... what happens if she changes schools and it's all ok? Still can't blame the situation? Just checking - Coco, your thoughts?

No, sometimes the school or teacher is just not a good fit. And - sometimes you can't do a dang thing about that. (Which is why the kid is going to have to fit in, and not the school or teachers changing to fit the kid.)

My older kid was in wonderful private schools for preschool and a large private elementary school for first and second grade. Did outstanding. Was understood. Scored so far off the standardized tests they make them take that she wasn't even on the chart, which ended at 9th grade level. Got a certificate of achievement in French. Won second prize in a book fair dress-up-like-your-favorite-book-character costume contest. (Costume I made!) Adorable.

Wonderful school, fabulous teachers, wish we'd never left it.

Problem was, we couldn't continue to pay for it. Wish we'd been rich. We weren't.

So my husband says, well, let's move, to a better school system. So we did. Now, second kid never had a problem whatsoever in any school with any teacher, period. But I've already mentioned the difference between kids and their personalities.

First kid, now in third grade, has the unfortunate luck of getting stuck with the worst teacher ever (who eventually went on to have a nervous breakdown and left teaching), who made a scapegoat out of my kid. By the time we had a parent-teacher conference, she had the school psychologist with her and they were telling me the kid was nuts and should be put in a special class.

!!!!!

Imagine!

(I think it wasn't luck so much that landed her in that class, but the fact that other parents, unbeknownst to me, were refusing to have their kid in it.)

Well, I could go on about that year forever. Trying to summarize, I will say that I worked with the school and that teacher, always being SO TERRIBLY NICE, and saying whatever I could that was good about the teacher in those meetings, while advocating for my kid, of course.

It was a nightmare, but we got through it. Eventually, the school year ended. Two years later, my second kid was scheduled for that teacher, we found out at the little deal they have two days before school starts, when you find your assignment.

I went into the principle and said, no way is my kid going to be in that class. She gave me this long deal about how there was no way out of it. I said, if that's the case, I'm removing my child from this school, even if we don't have any place else to go, because this is just not happening. She said, "Well, it can't be done, but I'll see what I can do." This was the same principal in on the first kid, so she knew where I was coming from.

My (pleasant) ultimatum left me AND my kid in total apprehensive limbo for the next two days. Instead of my kid enjoying the excitement of the new school year with the other kids.

End result: She was moved to another teacher. That was the year the awful teacher had her breakdown and left school.

-----

It was clear to me that a good private school - which will work with your kid as an individual - is light years above a public school. Not because there aren't wonderful teachers in public school, and we've had many, but because it is a crap shoot. A troubled teacher like my older kid had for third grade would have been fired from a private school.

But, as I said, we couldn't afford it.

So sounds to me like you have a kid something like our older daughter. Younger daughter - could fit in anywhere and thrive. Older daughter - a whole different story.

Older daughter ended up in another private school in middle school, by the way - this time as a result of getting beat up in the locker room.

So what I'm saying is, one doesn't have all the choices in the world. Sometimes one has to make do with a public school or a particular teacher, even if it is not the best fit for the child at ALL. And that is, yes, heartbreaking.

Having had the experience with older daughter, I can tell you it is your job to make your child make the best of the situation. To get along.

So if you go to the new school, it may very well be a much better fit for your child. But you will have to make sure your child behaves.

And remember, you have the power to do that - because your child wants desperately and existentially to please YOU.

Jen 02-27-2012 12:26 PM

My hope for you and your daughter is that the entire episode was just a "steam-release", some kind of cry for help because of what was happening at home, and that now that that stress is past, she's going to do great and surpass all your wildest expectations.

I'll leave those good wishes and hopes there on your doorstep and call it enough.

Oryx Tempel 02-27-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merovigan (Post 421492)

FWIW, i do want to hear what Oryx has to say.

I am not a child raising expert. I am not a parent. I'm a part time step parent. Those bona fides out of the way, I would say that the child is really lashing out. I don't think that she's found weakness in her teachers - I think she's scared and unsure of the future, and sees the tension at home, and this is the only way that she knows how to show her frustration.

No matter how brilliant or 'aware' she is, she's still just a child, and no child at six or seven is capable of rationally working through really complex family issues, school issues and personal issues. They just aren't. They're children; their brains are not physically mature; they haven't made those synaptic connections yet that form adult decision-making and analytical abilities. Treating her like an adult, especially at this young age, is giving her a lot of mixed messages. What she needs right now is for someone else to be the boss of her, to take care of her, to let her be a kid. She doesn't need to be making mature decisions because frankly, no matter how 'there' she is, she's just not ready.

I think that taking her out of school and home-schooling her at this point is a really bad idea. She needs to be with other kids her age. She needs to learn how to function in society, not withdraw from it. She also needs a psychologist. When Trout got divorced from Shamu, we put the kids in counseling, just so they could talk (or not talk - I think they played a lot of Jenga) to a sane adult who was concerned only for the child and had no ulterior motives.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oryx Tempel (Post 421549)
I am not a child raising expert. I am not a parent. I'm a part time step parent. Those bona fides out of the way, I would say that the child is really lashing out.

You're someone who said that my kiddo sounded like a shark (or my description of her did? It seems so long ago...) and I wanted to hear more from you, after my description. That's been achieved, thanks!!

Quote:

No matter how brilliant or 'aware' she is, she's still just a child, and no child at six or seven is capable of rationally working through really complex family issues, school issues and personal issues.
This is true.

Quote:

I think that taking her out of school and home-schooling her at this point is a really bad idea. She needs to be with other kids her age. She needs to learn how to function in society, not withdraw from it. She also needs a psychologist.
She's got one and while home-schooling's what we did this year I have no clue what second grade will entail. Probably public school, and I might be working closer so the major duties won't all fall on the ex. We'll see.

The psychologist says she's perfectly normal except for her self-esteem issues. She doesn't want to try anything if she thinks/feels/expects that her work won't be up to her standard.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 421515)
It is key to raising an intelligent child. It is also completely anathema to social darwinism.

Choke on something.

Merovigan 02-27-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jen (Post 421548)
I'll leave those good wishes and hopes there on your doorstep and call it enough.

But don't forget that parting shot about how my political beliefs are messing up my kid! Yeah I'm all awash in your good wishes from that one.

Asher Bertrand 02-27-2012 01:43 PM

So thin-skinned. If she is truly convinced that you are harming your daughter, how would it be wishing you well to not say it?

Oryx Tempel 02-27-2012 01:58 PM

I thought of this while I was in the shower just now, LOL. It's where I do some of my best thinking.

Re: alpha wolves... she may certainly grow up to be an alpha wolf, but for now, she's a cub. Wolf pack adults love and care for their cubs, and protect them to maturity, but they also make certain that the cubs know that they are cubs, and not at the top of the pack.

As far as decision making processes that I mentioned above... my stepdaughter could wear butterfly wings and a dress over jeans if she wants to; I'm not going to tell her what to wear.

What she's not allowed to decide is whether or not she stays with Shamu or with us for a weekend. She's not capable of adult decisions like that, and it's not fair to expect her to make them.

Jen 02-27-2012 03:15 PM

Notice how when I say "mutual respect is anathema to Social Darwinism", your cogent response in defense of Social Darwinistic views amounts to angrily disrespecting me?

Yeah....

My case, it is resting.


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